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How Long For An Update From The Engines?


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10 replies to this topic

#1 donaldcroswell

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 05:39 PM

Hi Guys
I am finally in Google! Yeah!
Now I am curious as to how often the spiders update the pages. I want to play around with the SEO on pages to see what effects it has on my ranking but am unsure of how long I have to wait to see if the changes made any difference.

Also, as other people change thier sites, I am wondering if my ranking might change even if I do nothing. Any suggestions on how to know if your SEO techniques are working to better your sites ranking?

On another topic, I have been reporting a spammer, :whip:

[snipped URLs as it's not relevant to know who they are. - Jill]

etc...
this person has heaps of pages with white text on white background. I have reported it to the spam department at Google for months now but they are still in the top 5 for all of the keywords I target. Anyone know how long it takes to get them removed? It is frustrating to get beaten by a cheater every time when you try and play by the rules. :wacko:

Thanks heaps
Don
:rolleyes:

#2 Jill

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 05:48 PM

Hi Don,

How frequently your page will get updated depends on how important Google thinks it is.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend tweaking anything for a few months. If you believe you optimized well, you need to give it a few months to "gel." If you tweak, you really won't know what's working and what's not. You may think you do, but it won't really be right.

Use the waiting time to find places that will list your site, instead.

As to the invisible text thing, Google may or may not remove it ever. They don't generally remove stuff like that by hand as it's usually harmless. So don't be surprised if it stays there forever. Most likely it's ranking okay despite of its spamminess, not because of it.

Jill

#3 qwerty

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 05:55 PM

I agree with Jill that you should wait a while before tweaking your pages that have been indexed.

In addition to finding some good places to get backlinks, this is also an opportunity for you to create new pages, and those pages, since they're obviously not already indexed, can be your proving ground for new SEO ideas, if you wish.

#4 donaldcroswell

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 06:12 PM

Thanks for the quick reply.
You mean Google doesn't remove pages that use the same color text on the background? I thought that was a big 'NO NO'.
So I can probably put a bunch of text at the bottom of my pages too and not get removed?
What if you didn't even hide them? What if you just put a long string of repeated keywords at the bottom of your page. Then you aren't trying to hide it. What if you put a Phrase like "The following is a list of search terms we feel is very relevant to our site"
That is not trying to trick anyone and if it is at the bottom of your page but gives you a number one ranking, it would be worth it. I'd lose a bit of asthetics to get more quality traffic.
Flash looks great but I don't use it because of the fact that the engines don't spider the SWF's.
I am confused :rolleyes:

#5 Jill

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 06:52 PM

I'm not saying that it's not spam to use that hidden text, it's just that they don't seem to remove it. They try to make their algorithms be able to detect it, but I don't think they have that down pat yet.

Yes, you could put a long string of keywords at the bottom of your page either visibly or not, but it wouldn't help you get high rankings. The search engines look for words being used correctly in natural language and most likely weight them a lot more than they weight strings of repetitive words that make no sense.

Eventually the spammy pages may be removed and they will have to start over from scratch. But then again, they might not.

Jill

#6 chill105

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 10:12 PM

I just launched our new site this week, and I'm eagerly awaiting the day when google updates its index so I can see how everything works out.

Check it out, let me know what you think:

www.beansbeauty.com

#7 dzinerbear

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Posted 17 August 2003 - 06:50 PM

"On another topic, I have been reporting a spammer..."

Here's a novel idea, and I'm not being sarcastic, but why don't you just focus all of that energy into making your site the best it can be.

I'll be frank: I'm a webmaster of gay adult websites. After losing my job in March, I put up a site in April and started building a little empire. I managed very quickly to get top spot on many keywords. I've noticed, however, that there's one company in particular that I just can't beat. They have hundreds of pages that are all basically the same page but titled differently. If I go after one of the words they "own" I'll come in second. (By the way, if some kind soul who knows anything about cloaking wouldn't mind contacting me privately, I'd like someone to verify my hunch that these guys are cloaking. I not looking to cloak myself, I want the piece of mind of knowing there's nothing I can do to beat them.)

Initially, I thought about going on a reporting campaign, but I thought about it and came to the following conclusions. Does Google care about one adult site cheating out another? Probably not. How am I assured that I'm not being penalized for complaining too much? And I imagine if complaining actually got any substantial results then search engine optimization companies and porn and gaming sites would employ people to simply sit there all day long and complain about their competitors.

And finally, all of the time and effort I might spend on checking keyword rankings and filling out report forms could be better spent tweaking a page on my site, or writing a new article, or any number of things that might improve my site.

I'm very big on karma these days, and particularly corporate karma. I think that all I need to do is create good quality sites that provide my visitors with what they are looking for and delivers what I promise them. I steer clear of all of the regular rip-off schemes in the adult busienss, and I don't employ tricks or cheats to get good rankings. I write a lot of content for my sites: stories, articles, descriptions, reviews, and they're all working at bringing in traffic. (My revenues are doubling about every three weeks.)

So, while the competition has the number one spot for a lot of great keywords, they're killing themselves. People will get tired of seeing they're crap; people will begin to see their URLs and recognize them. I think they are cheating the system to get a number one spot and they will eventually fall.

During the month of July, one of my sites got about 16,000 visitors; during the first two weeks of August, I've already surpassed that. So, I think my strategy is working, and I recommend that you try the same.

And just a small example of corporate karma in action: there's a large fastfood chain that spent a couple of dozen years chopping down rainforest, polluting the environment with styrofoam, and paying it's employees abominal wages. Now, all of that bad behaviour is coming back to bite them in the butt. They are now handing out napkins two at a time, doling out ketchup a package at a time, and charging extra money for extra packages of sauce. In other words, they're having to kill themselves to make every dime.

Don't kill yourself worrying about what your competitor is doing. Ultimately, you have no control over what your competitor or Google do. Focus on what you CAN control. (Sorry this was so long, I hope you get something out of it.) Make your site great; you'll convert more of the traffic you do get, and you'll probably get more through word of mouth.

Good luck
Dzinerbear

#8 donaldcroswell

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Posted 17 August 2003 - 07:06 PM

Thanks Dzinerbear
You are absolutely right. It is easy to get sidetracked with someone else's stuff. I should concentrate on my stuff and make sure it is better.
:aloha:

#9 qwerty

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Posted 17 August 2003 - 07:13 PM

I definitely agree that making your own site as good as you can is far more important, and more beneficial, than reporting your competitors. But I don't see anything wrong with reporting a site that's clearly not abiding by the TOS.

Of course, "clearly" is apparently a relative term. What I might consider an evil nasty spammer might be seen by the SE as a site that's not particularly relevant, so if I report a site, I don't expect them to be immediately banned, or to get a gold star from the SE as a model citizen of the web.

It seems to me that sites that are reported are very rarely just dropped from the index. Instead, they are used as examples for updates to the SE's algo. And I do believe that they want us to let them know when we find things like that. Google wouldn't have its spam report form otherwise. And on the page containing that form, they specifically mention that

Trying to deceive (spam) our web crawler by means of hidden text, deceptive cloaking or doorway pages compromises the quality of our results and degrades the search experience for everyone.


That being said, I agree with you that adult sites are kind of a different animal. I don't think G cares if one adult site is cheating another. However, I think it would matter very much to them if an adult site was masquerading as something else. They'd much rather get a spam report from you than a complaint letter from a parent.

#10 bwelford

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 08:23 AM

By the way, if you have the Google Toolbar and type the keywords in the Google search window, then when highlighting the keywords, this will also show any hidden text. It is quite amazing how even some apparently reputable sites have hidden text.

Barry Welford

#11 Jill

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 11:54 AM

Great post, dzinerbear. :batman: Couldn't agree more.

Reporting competitor sites is simply petty, imo. Worry about your own stuff, as it's much more productive.

If a particular SERP for a particular keyword phrase is filled with spam, and the quality of results is lowered because of this, then sure, go report it.

But reporting one competitor because they are beating your site (whether they spam or not) is just nasty.

Jill




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