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Present Problems In Seo


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14 replies to this topic

#1 seo_bright

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 12:45 AM

Currently I am facing a few new problems that have not occurred before. Some of them are:
1. Taking quite a long time nearly infinite time to get a keyword in the top positions.
2. Non SEO'd sites are getting more enquires than SEO'd site.
3. Sometimes getting irrelevant pages as results for competitive keywords, that is other that the one I am expecting.
4. Number of links to my pages are continuosly decreasing each time hence traffic also falls.

I believe many have such problems too. If so please do share them.

#2 ogormask

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 01:05 AM

1. I think paid links are trumping actual leg work. I am no pro but that seems to be the case for me at least
2. luck and paid links? or just the paid links? Thats what I see in my field.. no reason some of these sites are outranking mine.
3. not sure on that
4. Diversify. If you are losing links then I think you should spread out. Try building links from more sources. This is never a bad thing anyways and much less likely for Google to discount your links.

#3 liquidgraph

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:26 PM

In general I'm hearing you say: traditional SEO isn't working.

I can honest vouch to the contrary. I've just been optimizing a site and increased tracked from 1-5 clicks/day to 100-150 clicks/day. This site's SERPs are rising like crazy, and I've gotten to first page on Google for very competitive keywords. The secret is lots of unique content, well-researched keywords, and LOTS of backlinks with your keywords in the anchor text. Backlinks are super important. Get them wherever you can: from Blog commenting, social bookmarking sites, etc.

Bottom line: don't doubt it, SEO still works!

#4 ogormask

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 09:37 PM

Oh I agree. My site is doing pretty well and I have never paid for a thing but I wonder about some of the competition because the sites have no links and no SEO and rank better than mine still. I can only assume paid links. What else?

#5 pood

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 10:40 PM

QUOTE(ogormask @ Feb 9 2009, 06:37 PM) View Post
Oh I agree. My site is doing pretty well and I have never paid for a thing but I wonder about some of the competition because the sites have no links and no SEO and rank better than mine still. I can only assume paid links. What else?


paid links will come up as links too....

how old are you competitor's sites?

how is their content

#6 torka

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:23 PM

seo_bright:

1. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why this is necessarily an indication of a problem. It seems to me that, depending on the competition for a particular phrase and how good you are at optimizing your pages, taking a long time to forever could be totally reasonable. There are no guarantees in SEO. Sometimes the best you can do simply isn't good enough to make it to the first page for that particular phrase in anything less than a very long, long time. Sometimes it's never going to be good enough.

2. When you say non-SEO'd sites are getting more inquiries, are these sites you control that haven't been optimized? If not, how do you know they're getting more inquiries?

If, on the other hand, these are all sites under your control we're talking about, and non-SEO'd sites are really generating more user interest than the SEO'd site, well... no offense, but that says to me the "SEO'd" site needs to be re-optimized, because it's clearly not doing its primary job of converting visitors to customers.

3. Again, IMO, this is a symptom of poor optimization. The search engines want very much to return the most relevant page for any given search query. They live and die by the quality of their search results. If irrelevant pages from your site are consistently over time coming up in the results, this says to me there's something telling the search engines those pages are relevant for that query.

It may be time to step back and take a long, hard look at the optimization for that site. Maybe even bring in an unbiased third party to evaluate it.

4. You say the number of links pointing to your pages is falling. How are you measuring / tracking links? Some link tracking tools are more accurate than others.

--Torka mf_prop.gif

#7 seo_bright

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 04:25 AM

Well Torka, I basically do organic SEO only and not paid.

1. I have worked on competitive keyword for more than a year, yet it is not coming up atleast to good 30 positions, even though I have worked on it a lot and built a lot of back links.

2. Actually I have control over two sites of same organization, but each with different name. I am supposed to do SEO for one site only and these two years of work, I have brought to a good level. But the other site is just maintenance and hold approx similar content but not done proper SEO as this one and not worked a bit on links for that site. But since I control over both sites, the other site is getting enquiries as well. Sometimes I feel that my SEO'd site enquiries are low.

3. This is a feature I am observing at times, not always. Since I keep checking the positions everyday for my competitve keywords which oscillates between specific positions, the pages they return also at times vary. Might be there are some parts in the page which does specify the keyword but no links to that page and not worked in getting back links.

4. I keep an excel sheet of the sites which have back links to our site and check often. I find some sites itself have disappeared. Hence I know that backlinks have dropped.





#8 torka

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:16 AM

I'm talking about organic SEO. PPC is a whole other animal. smile.gif

1. As I said before, depending on the competition and the specific target phrases, this may be reasonable. There is no "standard" time frame for success in SEO. Sometimes the phrases targeted are exceptionally competitive. Sometimes the competition is too well-entrenched. For a lot of reasons that may or may not have anything to do with you and your optimization, your pages may never get to the first page -- or at least it may be a very long, very tough slog to claw your way up there.

If those phrases aren't performing the way you'd like, then either try other phrases, or accept that it's simply going to take longer than a year -- potentially much longer -- to achieve your goals, and keep working. dntknw.gif

2. My previous answer stands. This may sound harsh, but the truth sometimes is. If the SEO'd site isn't getting as many inquiries as you think it should, or as many as a similar non-SEO'd site, this means it's likely the SEO process did something to make that site less attractive to human visitors.

Fix the site.

Pages that achieve first place rankings are worthless unless they also generate inquiries and sales. nono.gif

3. Stop checking rankings every day. mf_type.gif

Seriously. I wish I had a dollar for every time we've had to say that here. Multiple datacenters, each with its own copy of the database (not in 100% sync with the others), hundreds of algorithm changes and tweaks every year (more than on a day), personalization of search results, etc. all add up to constant fluctuation in the apparent rankings of many pages. This apparent fluctuation often has little to do with the effectiveness of your optimization.

Which means, bottom line, rankings alone are an unreliable metric for measuring the success of an optimization campaign. searchme.gif

Check rankings from time to time? Sure, if you want to. (Personally, I haven't checked mine in months.) But for day-to-day measurements, try focusing on traffic and conversions instead. You'll get a much better (and more useful) picture of how successful (or not) your optimization efforts have been. smartass.gif

4. Are you saying the sites themselves disappear? Or just that the link disappears from the page where it used to be? Either way, if its happening regularly, frankly it sounds to me as though you need to get better links from better sites. High-quality links and high-quality pages don't just up and disappear all that often.

We have a whole link-building forum here with all sorts of ideas for how to do this. Lots of temporary, low-quality links from low-value pages won't do you nearly as much good as a handful of long-lasting, high-quality links from a few reputable, well-regarded pages.

My further penny.gif less taxes, title and dealer prep and adjusted for inflation.

--Torka mf_prop.gif

#9 Michael Martinez

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 02:34 PM

I have to agree with Torka. It sounds like something in the SEO process is not working. Two very common mistakes that people make are:

1) Narrowing the scope of their content instead of optimizing for a targeted expression.

2) Relying on inbound links for relevance and emphasis.

When you optimize a page for a particular keyword, you don't want to cut out other expressions or reduce the robustness or diversity of the text. You want to provide just enough repetition to show people that this is the page they are looking for and you want to include just enough emphasis to reassure people that they have found the right page.

There is a huge difference between hammering your targeted expression to death and simply writing in a concise, informative manner about the topic at hand. But there is a similar huge difference between writing a concise, informative block of on-page copy about a keyword and ripping everything but that copy off the page.

So ask yourself: did you deprive your on-page optimization of relevant, supporting text (in any way -- some people move text into images, Flash, Javascript, etc.)? Did you overemphasize the keyword in any way?

As far as links go, the fact you see a declining number of reported links suggests to me that you think you should be ranking through links. That's a pretty inefficient SEO methodology.

Unless you have the capacity to generate hundreds or thousands of links, you'll never get ahead by relying on links -- not in a competitive query where your competitors DO have superior link generating capabilities.

Aside: Everyone talks about the value of link bait, which is a perfectly good alternative to link building, but here's the drawback to link bait: most people don't create a link bait title that incorporates their keywords. If you do manage to write a real link baity piece of content, most people are going to link to it with anchor text that doesn't help your relevance. You'll get some PageRank but you'll also get a lot of irrelevant text in the anchors.

So if you try to capture links through quality of content, then you need to give thought to how people would naturally link to that content. Many people will use anchors like "this", "your name", "your site name", "here", "and obscure expressions in the middle of" long sentences that place your desired keywords outside the anchor.

Search engines might pass non-anchor text on occasion but relying on THAT kind of value is even less efficient than just relying on links.


So think about how much weight you're giving to links versus content.

And remember, the best advice anyone can give you boils down to: if what you're doing now isn't working, then try something different.

It doesn't matter who you agree with, whose ideas you like the most. The best SEO ideas in the industry sometimes just don't work.

At some point, you have to stop what you're doing, assess its effectiveness, and then swallow your pride and say, "Hey, maybe I need to try something different."

All the good folks here can offer you reams of advice and feedback, but if you don't change what you're doing, you can pretty much expect to get the same results you've been getting.

Change is the most powerful SEO principle of all. No one can ever take it away from you or strip it of its ability to improve your search referrals.

#10 seo_bright

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 04:40 AM

Torka,
1 Its only that few competitive keywords are like this. I have other competitive keywords that have got good results, but anyways I shall try and wait till I have got them.
2. Ok I shall fix the site as you said.
3.
QUOTE
Stop checking rankings every day
Done but I need to give reports weekly of the rankings. Traffic analysis ... That reminds me. I have used statcounter for my traffic analysis, but recently I am unable to access it. Its asking for a user name and password and even when I provide one its not logging in. Does anyone have this problem?

4.
QUOTE
Are you saying the sites themselves disappear? Or just that the link disappears from the page where it used to be?

Yeah we do submissions to free directories and sometimes when I check for backlinks manually, I find that the directories are sold or parked somewhere and not existing. I have searched enough nearly 500 relevant sites where a link would definitely help, but I had sent mails again and again asking them for links, even reciprocal and that would just not happen.

Michael,

I cant do much about my site content, its science oriented site and most of the content I have not changed much copy for SEO purpose only little bit.

QUOTE
So ask yourself: did you deprive your on-page optimization of relevant, supporting text (in any way -- some people move text into images, Flash, Javascript, etc.)? Did you overemphasize the keyword in any way?

No just in titles and metas which is rarely observed by visitors. Other than that page copy remains much as it was prior optimization

#11 petri

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 05:38 AM

QUOTE(seo_bright @ Feb 12 2009, 11:40 AM) View Post
That reminds me. I have used statcounter for my traffic analysis, but recently I am unable to access it. Its asking for a user name and password and even when I provide one its not logging in. Does anyone have this problem?


When it asks for the name and password again, just push the submit/log in button once more (leave the name and password fields empty). That's how it worked for me.

#12 Yoshimi

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 12:02 PM

QUOTE(seo_bright @ Feb 12 2009, 09:40 AM) View Post
Torka,
1 Its only that few competitive keywords are like this. I have other competitive keywords that have got good results, but anyways I shall try and wait till I have got them.

This suggests to me that your site is relevant to those terms you are ranking for and not for the ones you are not ranking for; additionally all competative terms are not created equal, "car insurance" yeilds about half as many results as "crafts" but car insurance will be a lot harder to rank for as there are more people working a lot harder for those results.

QUOTE
4.
Yeah we do submissions to free directories and sometimes when I check for backlinks manually, I find that the directories are sold or parked somewhere and not existing. I have searched enough nearly 500 relevant sites where a link would definitely help, but I had sent mails again and again asking them for links, even reciprocal and that would just not happen.


Then these are not quality links, free directories are not great places to get links for the reasons you mention.

You say the site is science based; are these science products or articles? If articles is each page optimised for long tail queries? These are your bread and butter as far as traffic is concerned, and unless you have a very low level scientific audience most of your searches will be specific. This is also great for link backs as every time an article is cited you should be getting a link back from that (you could even include the back link code on the bottom of each article to encourage people to do this; copyscape could also help you identify places where your article has been cited and you could request that those people add a link back)

If you are selling science products then you need to be talking to the people who use your products, and working out ways to help them to help you to get quality links from high rated sites in the scientific community. an interview with a leading scientist (who is a customer) for instance would go a long way to getting links.

Of course I realise your site might not be on either of these subjects but from your answers to previous posts it seems like you may be in the position where you need to move past the basics of optimisation and try something new to take your site to the next level.




#13 seo_bright

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 03:24 AM

Petri,
QUOTE
When it asks for the name and password again, just push the submit/log in button once more (leave the name and password fields empty). That's how it worked for me.


I tried pressing the Ok button twice but at the end I am getting title:
You are not authorized to view this page and the url is www.statcounter.com/localstart.asp

Hope it is a temporary error and I have not got any mails regarding this.

Yoshimi, Thanks very much for your suggestions. Mine is a bit about machinery and technology. Cant do any innovations in SEO copywriting as other sites.

#14 jsimon

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 02:00 PM

QUOTE(seo_bright @ Feb 6 2009, 12:45 AM) View Post
Currently I am facing a few new problems that have not occurred before. Some of them are:
1. Taking quite a long time nearly infinite time to get a keyword in the top positions.
2. Non SEO'd sites are getting more enquires than SEO'd site.
3. Sometimes getting irrelevant pages as results for competitive keywords, that is other that the one I am expecting.
4. Number of links to my pages are continuosly decreasing each time hence traffic also falls.

I believe many have such problems too. If so please do share them.


1. yes right might b you are working on key words that are more competitive in the online market. some times we choose very common keyword but that is more competitive. thats y r u getting infinite time / hard time.
2. i m not agree with you ... how could you judge this?
3. hmm..some time it happens n there are no. of reason behind this, however its not a worrying factor...you can get your require results.
4. check your link building strategy. May b some of your inbound link has fall.

#15 seo_bright

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 03:33 AM

One clarification. The statcounter site is working. It was not working in my office computer due to proxy settings.




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