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Frauds


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12 replies to this topic

#1 rrjnsy89

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 09:01 PM

Hey, Iíve been reading about click frauds and it seems pretty scary stuff, is there an estimate on how good are the techniques used by google or other search engines to stop this?

#2 rocker314

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:01 AM

QUOTE(rrjnsy89 @ Feb 5 2009, 09:01 PM) View Post
Hey, Iíve been reading about click frauds and it seems pretty scary stuff, is there an estimate on how good are the techniques used by google or other search engines to stop this?

You may check them on Scam Search. I think you can find some answers there if they are really into frauds.

#3 Dave Collins

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:12 AM

Be aware of the possibility of Click Fraud, but don't lose sleep over it.

I believe that Click Fraud is the primary threat to Google's future. They have more to lose than their advertisers, so they're going to be on the ball.

I wouldn't worry unduly. Not with Google anyway.

#4 1dmf

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:15 AM

QUOTE
I believe that Click Fraud is the primary threat to Google's future. They have more to lose than their advertisers, so they're going to be on the ball.


Which in my opinion is why G! keeps quite about it, it happens far far more than most think and far far far more than G! will ever admit.

People earn good livings from it, so you tell me , is that not serious enough?

#5 tcolling

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 04:10 PM

QUOTE(1dmf @ Mar 12 2009, 06:15 AM) View Post
...People earn good livings from it, so you tell me , is that not serious enough?


How do they do that? Do they get paid by companies to click on competitors' ads?


#6 Randy

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 04:55 PM

For traditional PPC they'd set up an Adsense account (or similar) where they get paid for each click on each ad, then direct a lot of fake clicks at it.

Even if one had zero ethics it's still not advisable, because when push comes to shove it's still theft and a person can go to jail for that. Fairly easy to track down the culprits too, since the money is traceable.

#7 Dave Collins

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 03:56 AM

QUOTE(1dmf @ Mar 12 2009, 02:15 PM) View Post
Which in my opinion is why G! keeps quite about it, it happens far far more than most think and far far far more than G! will ever admit.

People earn good livings from it, so you tell me , is that not serious enough?


There are a lot of advertisers who *really* know what they're doing, and as part of their account management, keep an eye out for suspicious activity. We do, and we're not alone.

Sorry, but I don't have much patience for the "Google keep quiet about it" school of thought. AdWords people are a vocal and online-savvy crowd. If click fraud was anywhere near as common as you think, we'd know about it.

Note that I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Just that its very rare.

With the hundreds of accounts we've worked with, we've only ever seen one case. And Google refunded the whole lot in full. Plus if you check your account you'll see that Google often refund minor "suspicious activity" amounts without being prompted.

Aluminium hats often obscure the vision :-)

#8 1dmf

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 05:38 AM

QUOTE
Sorry, but I don't have much patience for the "Google keep quiet about it" school of thought.
Maybe you don't doesn't mean that it isn't true or that I don't see countless posts around the net saying the same thing.

We've even been victims of account fraud, so seings I have have documented 1st hand eveidence of the fact, I think I'll beleive the facts rather than someones hear say smile.gif


#9 Dave Collins

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 06:02 AM

QUOTE(1dmf @ Mar 16 2009, 11:38 AM) View Post
Maybe you don't doesn't mean that it isn't true or that I don't see countless posts around the net saying the same thing.

We've even been victims of account fraud, so seings I have have documented 1st hand eveidence of the fact, I think I'll beleive the facts rather than someones hear say smile.gif


People say a lot on the net. They're often wrong :-)

If you really were the victim of fraud, then I assume you were issued a full refund by Google?

We use software to dig through the data to determine whether there is fraud. Most people who think that fraud had taken place are simply incorrect.

also, perhaps we're both missing the main point - how do you define fraud?

#10 1dmf

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:27 AM

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then I assume you were issued a full refund by Google?
nope they stole our money, and tried to charge us for the fraudulent charges.

The account has never been given back nor our money!

QUOTE
how do you define fraud?
obtaining money thru deception kinda counts don't you think?


#11 tcolling

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 11:48 PM

QUOTE(1dmf @ Mar 16 2009, 09:27 AM) View Post
nope they stole our money, and tried to charge us for the fraudulent charges.

The account has never been given back nor our money!

obtaining money thru deception kinda counts don't you think?


I have to say, this has led me to think SERIOUSLY about not allowing our adwords ads to be put on the "content network". Tell me if that's just TOO paranoid, please.

- Tim


#12 torka

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 12:16 PM

Yep, it's TOO paranoid. smile.gif

Run a separate campaign for the content network, absolutely. Limit your exposure by bidding lower than you do for the search network. And watch it like a hawk. But don't just write it off without even giving it a test.

Some people find the content network to be a waste of time. But others see significantly better ROI from the content network because the bid costs are typically a lot lower. It depends on what you're offering, how good you are at writing the ads, how well the landing page works, etc.

The only way you can know how it will work for you is to give it a try. And it might not work. But if you never try, you could be giving up on a lucrative ad channel and leaving a lot of sales on the table without knowing it.

My penny.gif

--Torka mf_prop.gif

#13 tcolling

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:53 AM

Ok, thanks for suggesting a separate campaign, Torka. I think that sounds like an excellent idea!




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