13 replies to this topic

[don h]

All logged in Google users will now see SearchWiki on their search results where users can promote, delete, and comment on any listing.

Looks like Google just opened up a new battlefield for businesses, as well as a new avenue for spam. As the saying goes 'Business is War'. Whose to stop someone from creating dozens or 100s of google accounts and putting positive/negative comments on your own site or competitors? Or even to influence ranking, if Google uses the SearchWiki promotions as an indicator.

Is there anyone else besides me that think this is a very bad idea?

[Glenn Murray]

Whose to stop someone from creating dozens or 100s of google accounts and putting positive/negative comments on your own site or competitors?

I suspect Google has the intelligence to identify this sort of behavior. Or at least a lot of it. It'd have to be something similar to the intelligence they use to identify click fraud on Google ads, wouldn't it?

Or even to influence ranking, if Google uses the SearchWiki promotions as an indicator.

So far, they're not using it as a factor in ranking. But I read that they're not ruling it out: Google not ruling out using SearchWiki data in ranking: www.huomah.com/News/Latest/Google-Search-Wiki.html

Is there anyone else besides me that think this is a very bad idea?

I think if they could control the spam, it could certainly capture user behavior nicely, thereby bringing something a little more human than backlinks to the ranking criteria table. But can they control the spam? And at what cost? And what else haven't I thought of 'cos I'm writing this at 2am?! ;-)

Glenn (Twitter: @divinewrite)

[Leila]

I think it's only a matter of time before they do start using the data they gather to change how people see the SERPs. Bruce Clay mentioned that "ranking is dead", I think that's a bit extreme but the way SEO is conducted is definitely going to be going through a major change - SearchWiki could be a good example of how big the change could be. It may be that Google is using this as market research to see how well it will work...

Of course I could be completely paranoid Either way...I'm interested to see what Google will do with this experiment.

I think content really will come into play here. The possibility of it being harder to practise blackhat methods is also very much there. It all goes back to what the user wants.

IMO anyway.

Edited by Leila, 21 November 2008 - 10:40 AM.

[don h]

I suspect Google has the intelligence to identify this sort of behavior. Or at least a lot of it. It'd have to be something similar to the intelligence they use to identify click fraud on Google ads, wouldn't it?

Yes I'm sure they do, however, for the skilled and resourceful, there are ways to make it very difficult to discern whether actions done on Google's SearchWiki are legit, this is largely due to the fact that creating a Google account is easy and doesn't confirm your identity. Of course if you try to create dozens of Google accounts at your house don't be surprised if all your actions are flagged and removed. What I'm afraid of is the former, I'll bet the blackhats are salivating over the implications of this new feature.

So far, they're not using it as a factor in ranking. But I read that they're not ruling it out: Google not ruling out using SearchWiki data in ranking: www.huomah.com/News/Latest/Google-Search-Wiki.html

If they said that then you can probably bet that they're already working on incorporating it into their ranking algorithmns, likely see some ranking fluctuations as they test it over the course of next year.

[Randy]

There are certainly issues that'll have to be overcome. Though none that are necessarily more serious than what already exists with the other ranking methods they utilize.

The idea that a Google account is a nice one I guess. But hardly foolproof. Remember that story from a couple of weeks ago where a half dozen researchers in the Univ of California system infiltrated the Storm network? They estimated that they had one million infected home computers under their control.

Would it be child's play for them to install a little script to have a few (hundred? thousand?) of them sign up for a Google account, log in every day to look like real people, then post positive or negative stuff about certain sites to SearchWiki? You bet it would!

Could it become a factor? Sure, I guess. In fact I'd say it probably will in time. But I hope Google treat such recommendations much like they do sites linking to yours now. In other words, don't give too much credit or blame based upon SearchWiki info.

[don h]

Matt Cutts says on twitter that he reserves the right to spam review sites with a lot of demotions. I wonder if there is an automated mechanism in place to remove a website or if its just human reviewed.

[Jill]

Danny Sullivan has a great write up on this showing exactly how it works at the moment:

Google SearchWiki 101: An Illustrated Guide

[MaKa]

Thanks for linking to the write up, it's very informative.

Say you're working for a largish organisation. Wouldn't it be too easy to circulate an email to all employees saying, please promote our company listing, and demote all our competitors.

[Randy]

Yes it would MaKa. But at least then they'd presumably have to comment/promote it from their home computers instead of from the office computers. I assume one of the bits of info that gets recorded with each is the IP number of the user.

The point you raise though is a valid one. I fully expect to start seeing posts on every SEO forum trying to form a several hundred people army set up to have everybody comment on everybody elses site. Well, every forum 'cept this one I'd imagine.

I suspect we'll also start seeing such commenting services offered at places like elance, rent a coder, etc too. I'm quite sure Google expects this sort of thing to happen too.

[Jill]

Personally, I'm hesitant to use it at all, especially when it comes to my own sites as I can only see Google using the information to downgrade stuff not upgrade.

If this were my tool, I'd go looking first at all the SEO companies moving their sites up in the listings and writing good comments about themselves and then I'd go knock 'em down a few pegs for trying to cheat. (Well only if I were so inclined to be evil, of course!)

[don h]

I think Google is going to use this data and compare it with their main index ranking algorithmns as soon as they've got a large enough data set. If Google agrees with SearchWiki data in the majority of cases then IMHO they'll likely incorporate it into their main index ranking algorithmns.

IF over time enough people use it then it could be difficult to manipulate, atleast for mid-high searched for keywords. As there will be power in the masses. Comments however could easily ruin a business's rep, whether it be deserved or not. Since there's no way to validate a business transaction with this system. I forsee people getting sued for making false and defamatory statements and Google should definiately post a note somewhere on the page to address this. If enough users do use it, then the comment spam is just going to make Google look bad and the comments less trustworthy as a source of information. As for myself, after looking at a bunch of comments I'm already turned off from looking at more of them.

Also the fact that Google says they're going to use their 'team' to look at comments with a high number of thumbs down in the same breath as they're going to use their 'team' to look at pages/sites with a high number of demotions leads me to believe they're both going to be handled by a program, and not by a human. Maybe a similar system like what Craigslist uses to handle spam?

I guess whether we'll continue to see SearchWiki has a lot to do with how Google users cope with it, they're certainly not going to keep the feature if they're losing revenue over it. I personally think it's useless and just adds clutter to their previously clean n tidy search pages. It bugs me a little seeing those extra buttons on every listing, even if they're greyed out, they still stick out and distract me. If I wanted to use it, an opt-in would be nice, or a toggle link somewhere would do. If it aint vital, don't add it!

Perhaps the additional clutter on the organics will turn more eyes over to the PPC ads? hmm I wonder if this is another reason for SearchWiki.

Edited by don h, 24 November 2008 - 10:12 AM.

[Mhoram]

I'm thrilled, for one reason: I may finally be able to convince my clients to stop obsessing about rankings. As soon as they start messing with it, promoting themselves and demoting their enemies (and there's no way they'll be able to resist) their SERPs will be different from everyone else's. When everyone's SERPs are personalized, checking rankings won't really tell them anything anymore. Now we can really focus on traffic and conversions without the constant distraction.

[Deverill]

I'm thrilled, for one reason: I may finally be able to convince my clients to stop obsessing about rankings.

I agree 100% with this but have to wonder - how many shady SEOs will either use the client's google login or use their own login from their office to promote the client and then say "See, I got you to #1, now give me $10,000" and the poor suckers will be paying for #84 ranking? I think it would be good for Google to put some notice on there somewhere that the results are personalized and not what others may see because not everyone will know about the wiki stuff.

[Misscj]

SearchWiki is a very sensible data collection operation - interesting test data and comparative data.