8 replies to this topic

[thetraveler]

Would someone please tell me why this industry is full of so many egomaniacs and know-it-alls?

I became inspired to learn seo for my businesses because I got sick and tired of ego freaks and scammers giving me ridiculously inflated estimates, pretending like they were God himself, and treating me as though I was a moron because I did not understand seo.

Since then I have had pretty good results on my sites. I am no expert but lets be honest, seo is mostly just common sense. The biggest complaint I hear from fellow business people about their websites revolve around issues of the people working on their sites, not the sites themselves.

One example:
I recently had a site rebuilt and told the designer exactly what I wanted in terms of seo. However, because I do not write html he assumed I also did not know anything about optimzing my own site. So he slyly stuck rows of hidden keywords at the bottom of my homepage and I did not find it until the site was live. When I politely and humbly asked him to remove the hidden text he got flustered, told me I did not know what I was talking about, my rankings would plumet, and he knew everything because this was his job. I have countless stories like this from my own experiences and that of my friends.

Why don't these people understand that if you just treat people fairly and honestly try to educate them about their site they would trust you more and be happy to recommend your services. Your clients aren't stupid. You just work in a different field than they do.

So my question is, why are egomaniacs and know-it-alls so prevalent in this industry?

My list of do's and dont's for those in the seo industry:

6) Do Speak English. Don't use technical jargon just to make yourself sound smart.
5) Do educate your client. The more empowered you make them feel, the more comfortable they will be with you and your services.e
4) Do put the Ego away. It's the clients site and if they want something different, they are the ones who have to live with it.
3) Do realize that you don't actually know everything because nobody does. In my experience, most people who claim to know everything about seo, have outdated, irrelevant information.
2) Do explain what the goals of the search engines are and the history of seo. Once people have a grasp of this, it's easy to tell them why changes need to be made on their sites and why that guy promising 10,000 links in a day is not legitimate.
1) Do onto others as you would have them do onto you!

Edited by ambtmt12, 16 July 2008 - 04:23 PM.

[qwerty]

I almost completely agree with you, but on a few rare occasions, you need the ego. It's absolutely true that anyone can do their own SEO. What we provide is the opportunity to have someone else do it for you if you don't have the time or inclination to learn to do it and then do it yourself.

But sometimes, as part of the process of educating your client (which I agree is essential), they just won't listen to common sense. It's times like those that you simply have to make it clear to them that you've been doing this for years, you know what you're talking about, and what they're suggesting you do is simply wrong. That doesn't necessarily require that you inflate your ego, but there have been times when I've had to (as politely as possible) let a client know that they don't know what they're talking about.

The problem, of course, is that the client still has to decide. If I were the jerk you write about, telling the client that I'm the expert and I know that the hidden text I've added is essential, I'd hope the client would figure out that I'm a jerk.

[Jill]

Yep, I agree too!

It's one thing to have an ego if you really do know what you're doing. Unfortunately, there are too many in the industry who still don't have a clue.

[mcanerin]

I've been on both sides of that particular fence.

I've been on the side where morons calling themselves SEO's told me all sorts of crap. It's one reason that once I learned SEO for myself, I began to be active in forums.

I've also been on the SEO side of things, where clients who learned a little SEO (often from the aforementioned morons) would tell me I don't know what I'm doing because (and I quote) "All the big successful sites cloak and everyone knows it".

Two things bother me about your story, ambtmt12 :

1. A designer is not an SEO. But many think they are. There are a few that have picked it up, but it's not automatic. A designer is just as likely/unlikely to know SEO as the businessperson who hires them. Or the database admin. Or the cleaning lady.

Being a "web guy" means absolutely nothing. It's like assuming your dentist can help you with your brain surgery, because she's a "medical professional".

If you want a plumber, hire a plumber, not an electrician. If you want an SEO, hire an SEO, not ask a designer to "throw in some SEO while they are at it".

2. Sneaking hidden text in? Bad. The hidden text is bad enough, but the "sneaking" part is something I'd fire them over. And possibly sue for. If you have to sneak anything by your SEO (or client) you are not suited for the job. Period. Either because of an inability to communicate or some other reason. How could you possibly trust them after that? I wouldn't. What else did they try to sneak by you? The point is, you don't know, because they were being sneaks. That's a serious issue, and it's not about ego, it's about being trustworthy and communicative.

Business relationships are based on trust. Trust requires communication and commitment. On both sides.

BTW, I agree completely with the list.

Ian

Edited by mcanerin, 16 July 2008 - 04:49 PM.

[Hyperformance]

Wow, so that's what people don't like about me...?

Hmm, in my experience, every field has their EGOmaniac - know-it-alls... I will use an example from yesterday... The kid at T-mobile (cell phone store) - I swear I came in as a potential customer...

Or the guy at Best Buy, or, or, or...

I do not see it anymore (in seo) than anywhere else... To make this your first post makes me wonder how badly you got burned by someone? And agreeing with Ian - they should have been fired (IMO). Any Designer, developer or otherwise should be doing exactly what they were hired to do - adding their own code or otherwise is completely unacceptable.

Your list should also apply to every Industry - even the workers I struggle with at Burger King, or Wal-Mart, etc... -

I did not agree with your post - but then I am probably biased - In defending my ego (?) - When I have had to explain myself (or actions and why) more than a dozen times (patiently), and to the same clients sometimes... after 3 times, I think it could sound like I know it all... some of these are the same clients who expect all the best results, but do not implement all of our (know it all) suggestions.

Some of us have fought very hard to not only get here, but to make a lucrative living at a "career" that did not exist before the web, - you couldn't learn it in school, there were not a lot of people that knew what was working... let alone ones you could trust... some of us take this Industry to heart - I guess this could be my ego too - in defending the good guys, and doing what everyone else does not want to understand, much less do themselves.

I know this was NOT a personal stab at me or anyone, but am bothered that this is what you see in this Industry.

- Scott

[thetraveler]

Qwerty:
I agree it is necessary to give your professional opinion but the moment seo's take it personal that the client did not take your suggestion is the moment the seo takes it too far.

There should also be some understanding on the part of seo's that they have no idea what the entire marketing plan of a business is and maybe all of the seo's ideas just don't fit in with that.

Jill:
You can know what you are talking about and educate a client without being egotistical. Perhaps I should have used "egotistical" instead of ego because that is more along the lines of my post's intent.

Mcanerin:
100% correct!

On point 1, I completely agree. I did not hire this person to do any seo, just to build the site. He just snuck it in thinking he was doing me a favor but knowing I would not approve. By me telling him to remove it, it hurt his ego and he flipped out.

On point 2, you are right. I did fire him and now am a bit paranoid about what else is hidden in there. I went through the site again but of course, I don't write code and don't claim to. I know he was only trying to help but it is the sneaky part of it that gets under my skin.

But that story is just the one that broke the camels back. There are just too many egotistical maniacs and scammers that help to push this industry further and further into the realm of businesses people don't want to deal with.

Let me add one more thing:

Of course I don't believe all seo's are this way. Most of the more experienced people on this forum seem to the complete opposite. The problem is, the perception in business is that most seo's are scammers or blow hard's who no one wants to deal with.

I don't know if that really is the majority of seo's or if it is just that the worst ones are generally the loudest. That was the point of this post, to see what others thought. I do know that in my experience, the perception is that it is the majority and perception is greater than reality.

Hyperformance:

Great! I love that kind of reply. I understand those that do honest seo work will probably take some offense to this. Anyone who works hard to run a legitimate business would not like to hear things like that about their industry. But please understand, this is not my personal tirade against seo's. Rather it is an inquiry into why so many people think they are the one and only expert in seo. Of course you can find this anywhere, but some industries have it more than others. I assure you, I am not the only person outside of seo who feels this way.

Also, in the office, we were cracking up about your T-mobile remark. We were just talking yesterday about how so many crappy seo's look (figuratively) identical, just like the cell phone guys in the malls. It is always the same guy no matter what mall in the country you go to. A little out of shape, slicked back hair, a baggy shirt with a tie, in his 20's and yelling, "Hey, do you need a cell phone!" And yes, those cell phone guys always know everything too!

The point of the post is to find out what others think, thats all. Please don't take offense.

And, just to smooth things over here, I have found this type of ego a total of zero times on this forum. I am very appreciative of the people on this forum and the resource they provide.

Edited by Jill, 16 July 2008 - 08:04 PM.

[Randy]

The problem is, the perception in business is that most seo's are scammers or blow hard's who no one wants to deal with.

Just a minor correction...

The problem is there are too many wannabe seo's who claim they already are SEos, thus are scammers by definition by taking people's money to perform work they're not qualified to do.

Other than that, I feel your pain ambtmt12. I've had designers in the past try to do me favors when they had no clue what they were doing. And I live in html code, just sometimes like to bring in someone to give a site a look I might not think of. They knew this going into the project, as well as knowing that I SEO my own sites. Silly people.

Worse yet, I had a designer once who actually did a good job on a site design job for me, then I optimized it like normal. A year or so down the road I went back to his site to find his contact info to have him whip up some graphics and a design for another site because I liked the first site he did, only to find that he'd added SEO to his advertised services and was claiming to have done the SEO work on my site that was causing it to rank so well! My site was the glowing jewel in his SEO portfolio and he'd not done a lick of SEO work on the site. Nothing. Nada.

Needless to say, he never got another dime's worth of business from me. Along with being forced and shamed into having to take down the information. And getting a BBB complaint filed against his business just for fun for claiming he'd done work he hadn't.

[Jill]

Of course I don't believe all seo's are this way. Most of the more experienced people on this forum seem to the complete opposite. The problem is, the perception in business is that most seo's are scammers or blow hard's who no one wants to deal with.

It's a good thing though...it makes it so much easier to get those clients once they're ready to finally hire a REAL SEO!

[Hyperformance]

Hey ambtmt12 -

No offense taken - It was sincere on your part and I could tell.

I appreciate the honesty and education.

- SS