22 replies to this topic

[toprank]

Another tool you might try is www.goodkeywords.com.

Most of the time we use the Overture, Wordtracker and occasionally primary research with our client's clients depending on the sophistication of the program. Tools like Even Better Keywords and Good Keywords help for brainstorming. For us, keyword selection influences many aspects of the optimization and copywriting, linking structure, submissions and linking campaign tactics, so it holds a high priority.

[compar]

The only thing which IMO is important in differentiating between valid search terms is the number of times that it is searched for.

Yes you need to know what terms users are using, but if someone only uses a search term once a month its a waste of time optimizing for it.

You like to deal in extremes Mel. The question isn't whether a term is searched on once a month versus 20,000 times. The question is about the anal retentive types who spend their time worrying whether it is really 12,783 or only 12,751. It just doesn't matter. If it is a big number the term is popular and if it is a little number it ain't.

The question I have is if you could get absolutely accurate numbers unaffected by any web master searches etc., what good would it do you? There is no math you can apply that will forcast exactly how many people would click on your site. And then there is no math that will predict the conversion rate on those who do click on your site. So what is all the anxiety about accuracy?

There is enough witchcraft being hyped about about SEO and the magic and expertise of its practitioners without this angst about the absolute accuracy of the number of time a keyword phrase is searched on in a month.

[Mel]

Hi Bob:

IMO there are only three things which are primarily important when it comes to keywords:

1. They are relevant to the page in question
2. They are used by real live searchers
3. How many times they are used by real live searchers

While there are some secondary considerations (such as my preference for a term like buy little green widgets as opposed to little green widgets)

Once you have a more or less all inclusive list of relevant keywords which are used by real live searchers the only defining criteria between them is how many times they are used.

While I agree with you (to some extent) that you can make broad distinctions by saying it is either popular or it ain't, I prefer finer distinctions, and so the closer I can come to the real numbers the better.

Personally I don't worry if the numbers are 12, 754 versus 12,812 but I am concerned if the numbers are 8,000 versus 12,000, and in this case accuracy rounded to the nearest 2,000 might be good enough, but I am also concerned when we get into situations where there are niche phrases which may be searched on 30 times daily versus 90 times daily and in such cases I need to know with accuracy on the order of 20 searches.

While I cannot tell you exactly how many will click through for a given number of searches, for a given ranking and search term with a fixed title and description, I can tell you that the higher the number of searches the higher the number of clickthroughs will likely be.

That said this is only one of many criterea in choosing search terms to optimize for, and your results will vary according to many other factors, among them your skill in writing page titles that sell.

[compar]

Personally I don't worry if the numbers are 12, 754 versus 12,812 but I am concerned if the numbers are 8,000 versus 12,000, and in this case accuracy rounded to the nearest 2,000 might be good enough, but I am also concerned when we get into situations where there are niche phrases which may be searched on 30 times daily versus 90 times daily and in such cases I need to know with accuracy on the order of 20 searches.

Mel,

I think we are almost in complete agreement I would agree that potential distortion to the degree you suggest on niche words could cause a problem. But I guess my point is that other than be aware of the potential I don't think there is a thing in the world we can do about it, except possibly use an AdWord campaign to get Googles numbers. But even then I have found Google's actual performance on AdWord exposures lower than their estimates????

So I don't know why people are so possessed with discussing it and to some extent wringing their hands about it. Its there. It happens. There is very little we can do about it. I can't see how one tool -- Overture or Wordtracker -- can inherently be more accurate than another. And the title of this thread was are there other tools which are more accurate. The answer is NO! They all work with some database or the other and the databases are distort with web master searches and research. So lets get on with life and SEO business and quit beating our gums about it.

[Louisa]

What about foreign languages?

Does WordTracker give you information on them - I know Overture does for french

Denyse

Hi,

I'm looking for a French tool that does the same thing as WordTracker does. I know most of you don't worry about French language but if someone know's about it, il will be appreciate.

Thanks in avance.

Louisa

[Denyse]

Bonjour Louisa,

I'm also from Québec (just north of Montréal) and I have contacted Wordtracker about this issue.

They say they are developing a french version (I hope they mean bilingual) but could not give me a timeframe on this.

The only one I've found is Overture but their terms are very France french (you know what I mean) not Toile french.

If someone else out there knows of another tool, PLEEEEEASE tell us.

Denyse

[Louisa]

Merci!

[Stephanie]

Hey les filles!

I'm also from Montreal (Laval in fact...).

Nice to see you here!

Bonne journée