22 replies to this topic

[aifnet]

We have been trying to optimize some of our sites and have used wordtracker and the overture tool, but without going into detail we have wondered if these tools information are accurate. My actual question is are there any other tools that do somewhat of the same thing these tools do? Thanks

[incrediblehelp]

I really dont see how any of the tools can be completely accurate unless you have the search engines logs and I dont think that will happen.

[Vertster]

Try the google keyword sandbox... I think they still call it that. It's their suggestion tool. I still think wordtracker gives the best estimate of relative popularity of different phrases, although its worth using them all for ideas.

[GeordieSEO]

There's an Keyword Generator tool similar to Overture's at www.Espotting.com

It can be useful as it has a UK / European bias.

[Mel]

I really dont see how any of the tools can be completely accurate unless you have the search engines logs and I dont think that will happen.

Actually that is exactly what wordtracker does, it gets the logs from a couple of small engines and uses that data in its database.

[Stephanie]

Hi aifnet,

There si only one other tool I know that is comparable to Wordtracker, but it is included in a complete package (not just the keyword tool alone). It is called Site Build It, created by Ken Evoy. It is around the same price as wordtracker, but you get much more features.

[JamesW]

Hey,

There's a program called 'Even Better Keywords', which is seemingly in beta, that can be found at SearchGuild.com (apparently). This allows you to enter keywords and select a country, which I find helpful. I don't know which engines it queries but you may find it helpful nevertheless.

Cheers,

James

[compar]

I really dont see how any of the tools can be completely accurate unless you have the search engines logs and I dont think that will happen.

We have had this discussion in other threads. I can't see how getting the search engine logs would give you "complete accuracy". As discussed else where there are many searches done by web masters and SEO practitioners that inflate the count in the logs.

But in the end so what? If the tools or logs say that there is 15,000 searches a month on a keyword phrase what does it possibly matter whether that is only 10,000 or 12,000 original searches. It still indicates that the term is popular. If you optimize for it you will get a lot of traffic. I'm repeating myself but what is the attraction or even value of "complete accuracy"?

[projectphp]

IMHO, people worry far too much about keywords. You just need a general "feel", e.g. in America, ppl search for "mortgages", in Australia it is "home loans".

That information alone is worth heaps to a mortgage broker (funny, but we still call em that )

IMHO, the bulk of traffic will come from the millions of longer terms, not just from one or two, i.e. "widget" may get 2000 searches a day, but the combination of all the longer phrases, such as "blue widget", "buy widget", "cheap widget" and "widget france" etc etc will out number the simpler "widget" search by a huge margin.

So, the trick is to rank well for a large range of terms, not just one or two. Granted, finding the general words that work the best is vital, i.e. "home loan" versus "mortage", but the key then becomes how to use this knowledge to develop content naturally around variations of these words.

In this scenario, all you need from keyword research is a general feel of what works better, and what you target audience is looking for. Actual, absolute numbers are next to irrelevant. You will get all your value from keyword variations, not from a few isolated keywords.

[Mel]

Sorry but I must diagree with you Projectphp.

It has been my experience that sites built without proper keyword research seldom achieve either traffic or commercial success.

Its not about what we SEOs think are good keyphrases (and my experience is that you seldom get targetted traffic with less than 3 keyword phrases) its about what the terms the searchers are actually using. A no 1 ranking on a keyword that no one is searching for is totally useless as far as traffic is concerned.

A shotgun approach of optimizing your site for "a large range of terms" goes right against my Ideas of SEO. First of all I optimize pages, not sites, and each page can only efficiently target perhaps 3 key phrases.

[projectphp]

Sorry but I must diagree with you Projectphp.

Which part

The question of the post relates to were you can get the best, most accurate answers, which firstly don't exist. Overture is as good as accurate figures get, and wordtracker is as close a helpful tool as they come.

My response is that specific figures don't matter. It doesn't matter whether a word is reported as searched on 2000 times, versus only 1, 767 times by non-rank checking software. What you need to know is what words in general are most important. Synonyms, relevant phrases etc etc. The actual, absolute numbers are neither here nor there IMHO.

Your approach is perfectly reasonable and sensible. If you reread my post, you'll probably find that we have a lot in common, despite your initial thoughts

[Mel]

The only thing which IMO is important in differentiating between valid search terms is the number of times that it is searched for.

Yes you need to know what terms users are using, but if someone only uses a search term once a month its a waste of time optimizing for it.

I agree that Overture is the best tool to use for Overture, but question its relevance to any other search engine and especially the number of times they report search terms searched on, which in my experience is way overstated almost all the time. When Overture says 18,000 people were searching for a term lsst month and Google says they only served up pages for that term 4000 times in a month despite having much more traffic....??

If you want to know about the popularity of search terms in Google, then the adwords program will give you the number of impressions served for that search term.

[Denyse]

What about foreign languages?

Does WordTracker give you information on them - I know Overture does for french

Denyse

[Mel]

Wordtracker only has results for English language.

[compar]

Sorry but I must diagree with you Projectphp.

Gee Mel you never apologize when you disagree with me