I need to redirect users to a new site which is hosted with it's own domain name on a new server. Before that the old site was on a free webserver storage place hosted by an ISP (rcn.com) I don't have access to the htaccess so I can't do a 301 redirect.
What is an alternative way to redirect users and search engines in a clean way?
thanks!
PS: the site has been switched for over two years now but it's the old site that shows up first in Google not the new one. It's a real pain. There's no content on the pages of the old site just a "we have moved" message with the new URL. There's a listing for the old and new site in dmoz but only the old site's description is accurate not the new one. I've tried numereous times to contact dmoz about switching the descriptions and deleting the old listing but to no avail. because of this I've been reluctant to junk the old site altogether.
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Redirect A Site Cleanly Without A 301
Started by
kelly001
, Feb 04 2004 03:54 PM
15 replies to this topic
#2
qwerty
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Posted 04 February 2004 - 04:10 PM
You can ask RCN if they're able to set up a 301 for you. If they say no, the best thing I can think of is to replace whatever's on the old site with a simple "This site has been moved to the following address:" followed by a link to the new site.
You might also put a robots meta tag of "noindex, follow" on the page.
You might also put a robots meta tag of "noindex, follow" on the page.
#3
Ron Carnell
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Posted 04 February 2004 - 04:33 PM
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=Refresh CONTENT="5; URL=http://www.domain.com/">
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=Refresh CONTENT="5; URL=http://www.domain.com/">
<HEAD>
#4
kelly001
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Posted 04 February 2004 - 05:39 PM
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=Refresh CONTENT="5; URL=http://www.domain.com/">
<HEAD>
I've been told that this is a technic often used by spammers to redirect and mislead users and as such it's not very well appreciated by google. Any idea about that ?
#5
Ron Carnell
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Posted 04 February 2004 - 06:09 PM
You were told absolutely right, Kelly. The Meta Refresh and JavaScript redirect are both "bait and switch" tactics frequently used by SE spammers. If you use a fast refresh, the page of spam is indexed by the spider, but any visitors are redirected before they even see it. Not a good thing to do.
However, if you don't have access to a server redirect, a client-side redirect is your only choice. As long as the content on your page is not spam and the refresh rate allows the visitor a chance to see it (note it's set to 5 seconds in my example), it's *highly* unlikely to cause you any problems.
It doesn't really solve your problem, though, either. Bob's solution would be much better, IF you can get the host to comply.
However, if you don't have access to a server redirect, a client-side redirect is your only choice. As long as the content on your page is not spam and the refresh rate allows the visitor a chance to see it (note it's set to 5 seconds in my example), it's *highly* unlikely to cause you any problems.
It doesn't really solve your problem, though, either. Bob's solution would be much better, IF you can get the host to comply.
#6
mcanerin
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Posted 04 February 2004 - 11:47 PM
I've been told that anything less than 3 seconds is likely to get put on the "potential spam" list. Dunno if it's true, but it's probably a good idea to stick with 3-5 seconds or more.
Ian
Ian
#7
Jill
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Posted 05 February 2004 - 12:29 AM
Don't you guys think that the spammers have long since stopped using the meta refresh tag and are using .htaccess like the rest of us?
I really think the advice about meta refresh being a big problem is old info, and probably not as accurate as it once was. I mean, what's the dif. They can use .htaccess too! (And from what I understand, they do!)
Jill
I really think the advice about meta refresh being a big problem is old info, and probably not as accurate as it once was. I mean, what's the dif. They can use .htaccess too! (And from what I understand, they do!)
Jill
#8
kelly001
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Posted 05 February 2004 - 08:46 AM
Would it make sense to add robots tag with noindex, nofollow too ?
#9
Randy
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Posted 05 February 2004 - 08:53 AM
I don't suppose rcn has php available to you do they? If they do, you can at least get the index page redirecting properly with something like
Just replace the old index page with that, point it over to your new domain and you're set as far as your index page goes.
The problem would come in with your additional pages, unless they happen to already have a .php extension. For those you'd be pretty much forced to use a JS or META redirect solution.
Maybe do something like put a line of text on the old sub-pages saying the site has been moved, then a META redirect back to the main index page which then throws the 301? Dunno about the SEO effects of a double redirect, I've never tried it that way. But at least that might help Google pick up that it's all at a totally different domain now.
<?php
header("HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently");
header("Location: http://www.newdomain.com/");
exit();
?>Just replace the old index page with that, point it over to your new domain and you're set as far as your index page goes.
The problem would come in with your additional pages, unless they happen to already have a .php extension. For those you'd be pretty much forced to use a JS or META redirect solution.
Maybe do something like put a line of text on the old sub-pages saying the site has been moved, then a META redirect back to the main index page which then throws the 301? Dunno about the SEO effects of a double redirect, I've never tried it that way. But at least that might help Google pick up that it's all at a totally different domain now.
#10
Ron Carnell
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Posted 05 February 2004 - 12:03 PM
I would guess there are about as many spammers using Meta Refresh as there are using white text on white background. It's an old, old trick -- unless it's the first time you've heard it.Don't you guys think that the spammers have long since stopped using the meta refresh tag and are using .htaccess like the rest of us?
#11
DianeV
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Posted 06 February 2004 - 06:18 AM
I'd suspect you're right, Ron. In any case, I'd be somewhat wary of using a method that has been penalized by search engines until I found out that there were no longer penalities for its use.
#12
treemont
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Posted 08 February 2004 - 05:19 AM
You can use Apache's rewrite mod in your httpd.conf file. An example:
This is one of the ones I use. Clean. No errors - takes them right to my home page. You can set it up so that it will simply take out the old domain and put in the new domain and go right to the page it's looking for. For example, qs9000.com went live 5 January 1996. It's still in many links on other sites and in many search engine lists. If someone is searching for h ttp://qs9000.com/level2/cal_q1.html the rewrite engine will rewrite to h ttp://elsmar.com/level2/cal_q1.html
I have mine set up simply - a rewrite to my home page.
Do spammers do the same thing? Does significantly changing the currency (as the US has been doing for a few years now) stop counterfeiters? I don't think any of use will think of anything the spammers haven't.
RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^qs9000.com$
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://Elsmar.com [R] This is one of the ones I use. Clean. No errors - takes them right to my home page. You can set it up so that it will simply take out the old domain and put in the new domain and go right to the page it's looking for. For example, qs9000.com went live 5 January 1996. It's still in many links on other sites and in many search engine lists. If someone is searching for h ttp://qs9000.com/level2/cal_q1.html the rewrite engine will rewrite to h ttp://elsmar.com/level2/cal_q1.html
I have mine set up simply - a rewrite to my home page.
Do spammers do the same thing? Does significantly changing the currency (as the US has been doing for a few years now) stop counterfeiters? I don't think any of use will think of anything the spammers haven't.
#13
kelly001
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Posted 09 February 2004 - 08:42 AM
You can use Apache's rewrite mod in your httpd.conf file.
thanks for that but but as stated earlier I only have access to the html files on this free server from rcn.com I can't configure any server files. That is the problem. If I could I would just code a 301 redirect.
#14
anews
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Posted 09 February 2004 - 08:54 AM
Hi!
My $0.02:
I think doing a redirect without 301 is a bad idea altogether (in your case). 301 tells spiders and browsers that the content has moved permanently and that they should update index / bookmarks accordingly. Meta refresh on the other hand informs just the visitor, but visitors usually don't care about that - they came to your place because they clicked on your link or found you in SE listing. You should work on changing the links your visitors use to get to your old domain, not on informing them that the page has moved.
So, how do you issue a 301?
1) use Apache's .htaccess or httpd.conf
2) use PHP
Both ways were described in previous posts (by randy & treemont). I'm not sure that the treemont's way issues 301 (and not 302) though - you'll have to surf the net to check it.
If your ISP won't let you do it, put your domain on another host and do it there. Don't go for the Meta Redirect because it doesn't tell the crawlers that the page was moved premanently.
If people keep coming to your redirect page, you can check their referrers to see where they came from and contact the site owners to update links, but this is only important if your old domain and the new one are hosted by different ISPs - if the old one crashes, the people won't be able to get to your page through old addresses even though the pages are there. If both domains are hosted by the same ISP it does not matter, since the pages won't be available anyway...
Enjoy, hope it helps.
Anze
My $0.02:
I think doing a redirect without 301 is a bad idea altogether (in your case). 301 tells spiders and browsers that the content has moved permanently and that they should update index / bookmarks accordingly. Meta refresh on the other hand informs just the visitor, but visitors usually don't care about that - they came to your place because they clicked on your link or found you in SE listing. You should work on changing the links your visitors use to get to your old domain, not on informing them that the page has moved.
So, how do you issue a 301?
1) use Apache's .htaccess or httpd.conf
2) use PHP
Both ways were described in previous posts (by randy & treemont). I'm not sure that the treemont's way issues 301 (and not 302) though - you'll have to surf the net to check it.
If your ISP won't let you do it, put your domain on another host and do it there. Don't go for the Meta Redirect because it doesn't tell the crawlers that the page was moved premanently.
If people keep coming to your redirect page, you can check their referrers to see where they came from and contact the site owners to update links, but this is only important if your old domain and the new one are hosted by different ISPs - if the old one crashes, the people won't be able to get to your page through old addresses even though the pages are there. If both domains are hosted by the same ISP it does not matter, since the pages won't be available anyway...
Enjoy, hope it helps.
Anze
#15
Jill
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Posted 09 February 2004 - 08:57 AM
You can certainly use the Meta Refresh, and set it for 5 - 10 seconds or so, plus have a link on your old page saying that the site has moved and point to where it has moved.
However, in the past, I've always seen that you need to eventually just bite the bullet and remove the old site in order to truly get your new site listed (if you can't do the 301).
So do the meta refresh for a month or two, then bite it, and delete the entire thing...
That's my recommendation.
Jill
However, in the past, I've always seen that you need to eventually just bite the bullet and remove the old site in order to truly get your new site listed (if you can't do the 301).
So do the meta refresh for a month or two, then bite it, and delete the entire thing...
That's my recommendation.
Jill
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