26 replies to this topic

[Jill]

Jill, you mentioned working with larger companies/sites, that's my target. Do you address this at all in a contract, or raise this issue in the initial dialogue?

Absolutely! Before I'll take any client, they have to understand that we will indeed be making changes to their site (visible ones). And we provide them with the sorts of changes that might be necessary. Like we tell them they may have to implement a whole new navigation scheme. And/or change the anchor text of some links. And more likely than not, change the wording on the page.

So they know what's coming down the pike. Now, if for some reason they can't do everything, or can't do some of it, we can usually compromise. Sometimes you can do just 10% of what you want to do and it can have a huge effect.

You do need to listen carefully to them as to why they claim they can't make the changes. You want to be sure that you're not actually making their site worse for their site visitors. Remember, they have a specific marketing message and other things that you have to be cognizant of not messing up.

Back in the old days when I first began, I didn't really get that part and would recommend changes that might screw with some of their other marketing or branding initiatives. Now I'm much more aware of those things and understand that they ALWAYS come first.

[eddings]

How I have handled this challenge in the past is using a project management system that allows the client to be involved in each step. They see the tasks assigned to you and you can also assign tasks to them.
This accomplishes three things at once. One, they feel more involved and can see that the next steps assigned to you are pending on their own action. Second, you can use a project management system that is compatible with Outlook and create automated reminders and tasks to annoy the ever loving crap out of them until it gets done. Three, you now have dated documentation of the delays caused by the client if they ever complain about lack of results from you.

[MaryKrysia]

An electric cattle prod works wonders.

Works for me.

You do need to listen carefully to them as to why they claim they can't make the changes. You want to be sure that you're not actually making their site worse for their site visitors. Remember, they have a specific marketing message and other things that you have to be cognizant of not messing up.

Thanks, Jill. Sometimes we become so invested in our own agenda, we forget there are many parts to the huge puzzle called a web site.

Mary

[Catz]

You do need to listen carefully to them as to why they claim they can't make the changes.

This is so important.

Your optimization plan varies with each new client, depending on their clientele and what the site owners hope to achieve with the site. Communication with your client is essential. When possible, learn what they have done so far, what they have tried, what they are or perhaps are not comfortable doing.

We have to remember first and foremost, this is their site and they know what they are capable of doing on their end...make the most of it. Explain your case and why you need to do certain things a particular way, in a timely manner. Sometimes once they understand why you need to do something a certain way, they become more flexible on their end in working to make it happen.

Be flexible and do what you can.

On those occasions when you are lucky enough to get a client who really understands how SEO works, is enthusiastic throughout the process who makes implementing the changes you request a high priority...you have found the perfect client!

[noel_x99]

I think Catz had it so right. The IT Manager is threatened. I've worked with lots of different techies and they do have a different way of thinking. You'll need to find a way to get him on your side.

I do sometimes use the daily call/email routine. But that's only when I don't care to maintain the relationship any longer. Pestering might get a single task done, but it's not going to get your job done.

Is it possible to ask him to lunch? See if you can get him to relax and understand what you are trying to do. Stroke his ego a little...appear knowledgeable, but make sure he knows you aren't after any part of his domain. And tell him he'll look good to his bosses when some of these things start working.

[BizWoman]

Hi everyone:
I have read this thread with great interest (thanks lenwood for coming forward) as right now I have a client that has basically come to a full stop with the SEO work that I was paid to do for them. (Yes, at least I have been paid in full for the work I have done so far.)

As has been stated by others, I too am up against a threatened IT department from what I can tell. This is an educational/school client, and in certain respects I think these types of institutions move slowly ... which was something I was prepared to deal with.

But after completing and submitting the first 1/2 of exactly what I promised them, things have come to a complete stop. After inquiring with my contact person as to what was happening, and how could I possibly help in implementing the changes I have suggested, I got the BIG clue "...well the guy in the IT department who has to enter in this SEO stuff is rolling his eyes at me ... I am kind of hitting a brick wall ... bla bla bla"

I told him I'd be MORE than happy to talk to whomever was throwing up obstacles for him. I told him I'd mentioned this possibilty happening back in the very beginning. That is the last I've heard from this client. He hasn't returned my last phone call from 2 weeks ago where my voice message was "please advise the status on this project; how can I help move things forward; etc".

I do not believe it is an issue of he thinks my SEO work stinks, rather he's gotten too much opposition ... or the only other thing I can think of he has been fired?? (He was always extremely prompt in getting back to me.)

Sigh ... I am going to email him today. I plan on being upfront and asking that he please let me know whether I file away his work folder, or is there some extenuating circumstance that has put this project on a back burner?

The sad thing for me, is that I see the potential of what even the most basic of SEO changes will make to the (2) sites I was working on AND had all gone well ... there were all the other departments in this school that were desperately needing SEO on their unique sites. I had hoped to land more work due to the positive changes I knew I could make happen with these two.

Any words of encouragement, comments, or slaps upside the head, as to what I "should" have done way back when will be appreciated. Thanks.

[mcanerin]

I run into this all the time, since I specialize in international SEO, my clients tend to be pretty big. I don't get access to the CMS or FTP. Especially the government sites. I've never done work for a government that let me edit pages directly, and I'm not sure I blame them.

The first time I ran into this, it was a disaster. The IT people took my change list, did only 4 of the 25 or so changes, then told their bosses that they were done. Since this was not a monthly contract (it was a one-time report), I didn't check in for a while. When I did check in, I was told that I'd done a bad job because the site wasn't ranking well for anything. I did an audit and that's when I found that almost none of my changes had been implemented. Due to the turnover in the department, the whole site ended up being abandoned and a new one built instead. No, there was no good reason for it.

Fun.

So now, I'm very specific about results in my contracts and up front while talking to them. If I have direct access to the site, then the results of changes are my responsibility. If I do not, then I am not responsible for results (or lack thereof) due to changes made (or not made) to the site. In this case, the deliverable is a report, not a result.

You can't take responsibility for something you have no control over - it will never work. If all you can control is your reports and recommendations, then that's all you should promise as deliverables. If they want more (and they should), then you need to outline certain conditions, such as all changes recommended must be implemented within a week or reasons given in writing why they are not. That type of thing.

But you can't allow something completely under client control to be the basis of your failure/success. It doesn't work. You should only be responsible for those things you can control.

Now, that doesn't mean you should not do your best to help clients with some things you can't control (like search engine changes etc), but don't let your contract sucess/failure metrics be based on it (unless you build that assumption into the contract and charge extra for the additional risk on your part).

Ian

[Catz]

The sad thing for me, is that I see the potential of what even the most basic of SEO changes will make to the (2) sites I was working on AND had all gone well ... there were all the other departments in this school that were desperately needing SEO on their unique sites. I had hoped to land more work due to the positive changes I knew I could make happen with these two.

This is the sad truth in SEO.

We see the potential in web sites every day, we naturally review and edit just out of habit (at least I do). We know what is possible...but we need the cooperation of those in charge of these web sites to help them achieve their full potential.

It is amazing the stumbling blocks companies can put in the way of their own success sometimes.

[lenwood]

Whoa, I just noticed that my question made it into the [url=http://www.highrankings.com/newsletter]High Rankings Advisor[/url]. That's pretty cool. Is this my 15 minutes of fame?

So an update. It turns out that said I/T manager was not only holding up SEO performance, he was holding up several other projects that my company is doing for the client. Our account manager met with their sr mgt team and briefly discussed this. The next day the I/T manager was super helpful, asked me for input on the work I had done, plugged in everything (2 months worth of my work) within 30 minutes then asked me if I had more. Quite the difference.

After giving this issue some thought, I'm including a section on SEO performance and client responsiveness in our new contracts, and I'll also step up my communication with clients so that they understand what I'm doing. That way objections and disagreements can come out earlier in the process, and I can align my methods with their needs.

I'm sure this will come up again at some, but disaster was averted this time. Many thanks to all for your input.

[Jill]

That's great, Lenwood! Keep us informed as to how it goes.

[Ladybug]

Go to the person who hired you and make sure they are aware their employees are not doing the things you request. The person in charge assume the IT guy is handling things, in which case you need to let him know this is not happening and you are getting no corporation.

[Dan A. Root]

I am currently facing a very similar issue. A local SEM firm is outsourcing all of their SEO to me. However, they have partnered with a local web design firm that has many large clients. The web design firm "offers" SEO, but have nobody in place but the developer who read "SEO For Dummies" and thinks he knows everything. So because the firm I work for went to higher management and created this partnership, all of the guys on the development team at this design firm want to make it as hard as possible for us to achieve what we want. They literally want me to jot every change I want onto a Word pad and send to them with details on WHY, etc.

I found this post because I am researching what to do about my issue, but after reading this, I have decided that I am going to tell the SEM guys I work for that I don't do business this way, and I am going to set some guidelines on what I need. I want access to accomplish my goals and I don't want any red tape holding me back. If they get upset, I am going to recommend they contract a different SEO guy that is willing to do this tedious work.

Also, it's important to state... I don't have a problem outlining some of my job to a client directly... but a web design firm that "offers" SEO is the LAST group of people that I want to get ahold of my strategies and changes for SEO. These guys can turn around and cut us out - offering SEO themselves. I'm not in business to create more competition unless it's going through my blog and solving community-wide problems.