26 replies to this topic

[lenwood]

Hi All,
I'm coming up against a problem that I didn't anticipate, and am wondering how other SEO professionals have dealt with this. I have a few clients that have chosen to not give me access to their servers, which I'm great with (I don't want to be in the equation if anything happens to their site). It means that they have to take action on the tasks that I send them though, and they aren't. I'm still getting paid, but there is no net change in organic traffic because nothing on their sites has changed. So frustrating!!

Has anyone else faced this? And if so, what did you do?

Thanks,
Chris

[incrediblehelp]

Well have you been paid yet or does your pay depend on performance of the website? If you have already been paid and they won’t implement I guess that is more on them. If they won’t pay you until they implement then that is frustrating. I always have some sort of implementation time frames included in the contract, but I get paid by hour anyways so it is usually never effected.

[RobAde]

We have came up with similar issues as well as clients using really poor CMS systems that dont give us the ability to change many objects within their site. I dont believe their is a `right' answer but before we take on a client we state that full and proper access is needed so that we can effectively optimise their site, should they fail to give us the appropiate access we then decide if we are going to keep them on as a client. The majority of clients then grant us the required access.

Hi All,
I'm coming up against a problem that I didn't anticipate, and am wondering how other SEO professionals have dealt with this. I have a few clients that have chosen to not give me access to their servers, which I'm great with (I don't want to be in the equation if anything happens to their site). It means that they have to take action on the tasks that I send them though, and they aren't. I'm still getting paid, but there is no net change in organic traffic because nothing on their sites has changed. So frustrating!!

Has anyone else faced this? And if so, what did you do?

Thanks,
Chris

[Randy]

As mentioned above there really isn't a single right answer. Hopefully though your contract didn't do something like guarantee rankings improvement, or anything else for that matter since the implementation is out of your hands. It sounds like you've already been paid for your work, so you really don't have any room to complain if there's nothing hanging out there in the contract that could come back to bite you.

What to do next depends upon a lot of things, most importantly your relationship with the client. If it keeps happening though you're eventually going to have to do something. I always had good personal relationships with my clients back in the day. So eventually when they asked me to do something else that was going to cause billable hours I'd ask for a meeting, sometimes, usually starting with the person I was actually coordinating with, sometimes I'd go to whoever was signing the checks to make sure they were aware. During that session the convo would usually go something like:

I really enjoy working with <insert company> but I fear you're not getting the best performance out of the investments you're making in your web site. You see, I keep sending in the work you ask me to do but nothing ever appears on your web site. Frankly, I don't think it would be right for me to keep taking your money if nothing ever gets implemented. It just doesn't feel right.

I never had a single one get mad at me for looking out for their interests. I've had a few people who weren't doing their jobs for no good reason get mad at me, but the big bosses always appreciated me giving them a heads up.

And to answer your next question, yes I had to fire a few clients over such silly things.

[nethy]

It is an issue.

Not necessarily something you will work out for this case. But achieving results are important to your business as a consultant as well as their's.

I'd say you can expect a certain amount of this, depending on you target market. Especially if the project goes on for a while and your clients have lost their sense of excitement for it.

Edited by nethy, 25 March 2008 - 01:26 AM.

[KingPin]

I had this issue once with a client. They would not give me FTP access or nothing. At first every time I sent across changes to the site they did it swiftly. I found they was pretty good when it came to changing the major stuff like title tags but as SEO's we are always adjusting the site so when it came to the small stuff they had no interest.

At first I didn't mind as I was getting the monthly payment but as soon as there IT manager took a holiday, that was it, everything stopped and that was incredibly frustrating from my point of view.

Now I write that into the contract that I have full FTP/site/server access in order to carry out my job effectively. Since then I have had no issues.

That's probably the best way to go about it.

[Jill]

Welcome to the world of corporate SEO!

In most companies that have more than a few people working at them, it would be extremely rare to be given ftp access and have the ability to make all the changes that you want to make. And quite frankly, it shouldn't be part of your job as the SEO. Companies should have their own web teams in place to make the sort of changes you'll be recommending.

Whether they make them is up to them. There could be a number of reasons why they're not making them. They may just not have the time, or they may not agree with them. Most likely, they have to go through numerous layers of internal struggle to even get one word changed on a website.

As long as they're paying you your fees and you're delivering what you said you would, then personally, I wouldn't worry about it. Yes, you need to make sure they understand that to benefit from your recommendations they will have to implement them, but beyond that, it's in their hands.

[Moving to business issues forum.]

[Webnauts]

I tell my customers that I am convinced that they can achieve the best possible rankings if they follow my suggestions and instructions precisely to improve their site's performance.
Should they not follow these specific instructions, then that could have a detrimental effect on their rankings.

That's it.

[Andy_Seo]

As long as they're paying you your fees and you're delivering what you said you would, then personally, I wouldn't worry about it. Yes, you need to make sure they understand that to benefit from your recommendations they will have to implement them, but beyond that, it's in their hands.

The only problem with that is if the client (and most of the time they will be) is naive about SEO and do not fully understand and appreciate the work that goes into achieving high rankings. I am sure a number of people still see SEO as a black art, a manipulation of the search engines - they expect you to be putting in a piece of code that no one else has. So although lenwood is correct in what he is doing - there is always that concern that the client will not believe they are getting a ROI - and look elsewhere.

Lenwood - How complex is the site? I have an similar issue, however we actually built the site so I made a test copy on my local machine. I liaise with the webmaster on a regular basis, sending updates and changing things on the test site from time to time. It's more management and time consuming, but at least you are comforted with the fact that you are getting the recommendations implemented. However by the sounds of it, I doubt they'd be that considerate for a test site!

Good luck.

[MaKa]

The only problem with that is if the client (and most of the time they will be) is naive about SEO and do not fully understand and appreciate the work that goes into achieving high rankings. I am sure a number of people still see SEO as a black art, a manipulation of the search engines - they expect you to be putting in a piece of code that no one else has. So although lenwood is correct in what he is doing - there is always that concern that the client will not believe they are getting a ROI - and look elsewhere.

That's where you will need to educate your client, and explain - in a simplified way - how it works.

[Andy_Seo]

That's where you will need to educate your client, and explain - in a simplified way - how it works.

Sure I appreciate that - i'm just talking from initial expectations.

[Scottie]

An electric cattle prod works wonders.

[Hyperformance]

I think having those responsibilities outlined in your proposal and contract have you covered. If there is an actual name put on those responsibilities, that's even better.

(Scottie: your avatar is not showing... the red X doesn't suit you)

- Scott

[lenwood]

Thanks to all for your replies, this thread has been helpful for me.

This was my first large customer, and a very resistant I/T manager is the bottleneck. Sometimes he pushes back and sometimes he just ignores my input, but out of the three months that I've spent with them, the only thing that's been done is a robots.txt file.

This has been a real source of frustration for a couple of reasons. First, I want to make money AND I want to build a portfolio. Both are equally important. I'm just starting out, so every new client is taking me at my word that I'll be able to help them. A year from now if I can't point to some successes... Second, at some point the management team that hired me is going to want to see results. I send them extensive reports each month, they're paying substantial money and the numbers aren't moving. This isn't going to continue forever. Whether the problem is me or their employee, my contract is going to get cut for underperformance.

I'm willing to let the client go if it comes to that, but its not my first choice. I've begun daily calls and emails to the I/T mgr. If he doesn't implement my work it won't be because he didn't understand.

Jill, you mentioned working with larger companies/sites, that's my target. Do you address this at all in a contract, or raise this issue in the initial dialogue?

Thanks,
Chris

[Catz]

Chances are that IT Mgr is feeling a little threatened by your being brought in.

He sees you coming in telling him that he needs to do this and that to change "his" site. He probably already has a backlog of his own work to take care of, so he puts your tasks at the bottom of the "priority list" (don't you hate that term) because it couldn't possibly be as important as the 100 other things he needs to do.

He doesn't much like the idea that some stranger can come in and start telling him to make changes that could improve upon the site, since he has already done everything he can...and how could you possibly know better than the IT Mgr what "his" site needs anyway.

Nobody ever said working in SEO was easy.

Many times you are essentially looked at as the bad guy, coming into their territory saying this or that needs to be changed. You're asking everyone from the top down in the company to take time out of their busy schedules to help you (whether they have to provide you with content or articles that they want you to add to the site, or you need them to implement tracking code, make coding changes or upload pages for you).

Even worse, sometimes you ask for server/FTP access.

You are the bringer of bad news when you explain what is going on with their site currently, because you are asking them to take time out of their busy schedules, right away, to take care of things so you can get results (that they were unable to get, which touches on their own insecurities).

In reality, you are the bringer of good news. If they cooperate, working with you to give you/do what you need, everyone benefits through increased exposure.

Unfortunalety, many IT guys egos are more sensitive than their desire to work with you to improve upon what they have already done. They should be proud of what they have achieved but to have someone come in and say it needs to be improved upon...well that just cannot be tolerated.