Everyone has to do ppc. That's all.
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Posted 08 January 2008 - 06:29 PM
Everyone has to do ppc. That's all.
Posted 08 January 2008 - 08:26 PM
Everyone DOES NOT have to do Pay Per Click.
Posted 08 January 2008 - 09:04 PM
Everyone DOES have to do ppc!
Posted 08 January 2008 - 09:26 PM
In my early days I'd start sites without having any advertising budget. And got lucky enough, often enough that the first series of sites were able to turn a decent profit with most organic traffic combined with a little bit of PPC. Today the story is much, much different. Mostly because I've managed to learn the error of my ways. Today every new e-comm site starts out with an advertising budget, both an online advertising budget and an offline advertising budget. I've found that spent wisely it can bring a higher level of success much more quickly, and effectively limit relying too much on organic search traffic.
As an added bonus, I've also found that the combo seems to attract a lot of really good links I'd have never been able to beg someone enough to convince them to give ot me, even if I were willing to pay for them!
Posted 08 January 2008 - 09:51 PM
Now everyone repeat after me." Everyone needs to do ppc." Again!
No business gets done online without G! getting a cut of the action. For now anyway.
Posted 08 January 2008 - 10:16 PM
I am making money online without ANY PPC budget on more than one website.
As the cost of those key phrases continue to increase, and the cost of the consultant managing them is also included, the reality is that it is NOT as cost effective as it once was, and continues to increase.
(someone show me where worthwhile keyword phrases have decreased in cost, please.) Besides moving from Google to MSN.
I think it does have it's place, mostly when you need a jump start because you're not in the serps yet (new URL). But placing too much value in that being your online plan is a mistake and heavily tied only to your Visa card and not other solid marketing principles... nothing at all to rely on or plan a business on, based on not being able to succeed online without it? Hogwash!
Seven businesses - none of which use any PPC - and an eighth that uses it for specific Holiday "trials" only.
I guess the strength of EVERYBODY does not include me or others. "Everyone HAS TO use PPC" is too strong a statement and just not true (in my experience).
You are always free to disagree, but you have to back such strong statements with truth nethy - and I have shown you mine.
Posted 08 January 2008 - 10:29 PM
An interesting question is: Why can your competition afford PPC while you cannot? Better margins? Better Conversion rates.
Incedentaly: What would you spend your pocket money on if you it wasn't advertising? see this http://www.grokdotco...ur-advertising/
Posted 08 January 2008 - 11:19 PM
I've had a very minor PPC campaign going on since Google Adwords started, but it had been left to languish for years and wasn't doing anything with min. 5c bids
Will keep you guys posted as to how it does over the next few months.
High Rankings is slowly offering Paid Search campaigns on a limited basis this year as well, so we figured we better put our own money where our mouth is!
Posted 09 January 2008 - 03:16 AM
Why would I take on this increase in cost? Why would I want to actually cut my current margins? Not to mention add in the time (expense) and overhead of the constantly evolving management of this task? As well as the increasing costs I covered earlier.
And thank you Jill for showing that your business has not REQUIRED PPC as a means of being successful online to date.
If your business was busy, organic traffic was AWESOME, conversions were the focus, and any additional advertising PPC budget was NOT necessary, what would be the point? Just to do PPC? Just to pay Google? Simply to increase costs and overhead? Even the great links that Randy spoke of can be had in many other less costly ways. Why use scare tactics for the readers here? It sounds like your solution to everything that ails your website is PPC.
Eau Contraire. Do you work for Google?
And starting out by convincing a client to spend $250 per month - plus your fees or somebody getting paid to set it up and manage it - is NOT an end all solution to a traffic increase issue.
I don't expect any answers, as I did not receive any answers to my previous post, just more silly questions - because someone disagreed with you and proved why? You offer no substantial added benefit to PPC - none at all. (And I know some good ones, but you have touched on none of them). Jill had a good one - she is looking at growing her business and awareness in 2008... and it is PART of a plan - not THE plan.
The question was initially asked about getting more traffic - Your one and only solution has been to tell them to PAY for more (which is also no guarantee at all). There are many, many, better and lower cost and management alternatives to more visitors than your cure-all in PPC. And to answer your question, there has never been a lack of places to spend money - and yes some are advertising, but not PPC. It is being done everyday, right here.
The one point I have made and you have failed to answer is proving to me that it is THE solution here - how could you ever convince a prospective client to go with your plan? You have proved to me that I would not hire you... I was trying to offer better advice to the readers here, and not have them completely mislead. PPC is no silver bullet - and it comes with a price that goes on for as long as your VISA card works. I am simply stating that there are better bang for your money alternatives... and I stand by the fact that PPC IS NOT necessary to do good business online. I did not state that it does not work or does not have benefits when kept in its proper perspective.
How much income are you deriving from your PPC strewn websites? Is it on the increase or is that just the budget? My self-running non PPC websites generate a few thousand dollars a month and rising every month, and it is not because they have PPC accounts - because quite simply - they do not. And traffic has been on the rise since day one. Randy IS right, but he stated you need to advertise - he did not say you NEED to do PPC.
And to everyone else reading here - thanks for hearing me out.
Posted 09 January 2008 - 04:40 AM
I know plenty of people that would like operations, it would cure their ills, however, they can't afford the operation!
Why is it assumed we can all afford PPC? or even insinuate that we cannot afford NOT to do PPC.
I have one website over the last six months have spent over £1,000.00 on G! , and had not one bit of business, now i know this is more to the fact for some reason the online quoting engine just isn't converting, and so we will be having a redesign, but it's cost us £1,000.00 via PPC to find this out, how is that cost effective?
I've ran many PPC campaigns for a variety of websites, and so far not one has been value for money, ok some will say thats my lack of campaign managements skills, but from the amount of campaigns i've run and the wide range of services and products (including hobby sites), I can't have got every keyword / CPC and landing page wrong!
I have never from PPC (and from others I know who have run them , including overture) seen any ROI what so ever!
I guess I just move in the wrong circles!
Posted 09 January 2008 - 07:27 AM
You might have gone just a bit too far with that one Nethy! I agree there needs to be advertising. I'm just not limiting it to PPC, becasue even PPC limits the options by targeting only people who use the Search Engines.
Do I use PPC? Yes. Is it anything close to my largest advertising spend? No.
So I do agree there must be some form of advertising that doesn't include just SEO and organic searches. I do agree that if you're having trouble with ranking for some phrase or phrases PPC is the best option to target those search engine users. But I also think it's incredibly important NOT to put all of ones eggs in the same basket. I see no reason to limit my site's exposure to users who use a search engine.
So online, I often purchase ads in newsletters and ezines that my target market is probably already reading. (Pay attention to these 1dmf! They're answering your question.) I'll also try to get some free advertising online by putting out Press Releases when I have something interesting to let people know about. I'll try to find the time to write an article or two, working in references what problem my service/product helps to solve for real people. Even if I never actually say as much, outlining the problem that needs a solution gets people reading.
Offline I consider spending some money on direct mail pieces to reach my target market where they live or work. I'll point traditional press to the releases I've put out and/or the articles I've written. Sometimes I'll even take out newspaper ads. Sometimes I'll try to work with other companies to get the word out where there's a good fit between what they do and what I offer.
And I set up tracking for each advertising campaign I put out there so that I can tell which are working, which are borderline and may need more work to be profitable and which need to simply be dropped because they're not a cost effective way to reach my target audience.
Posted 09 January 2008 - 08:04 AM
Posted 09 January 2008 - 10:15 AM
Is it too late to apologize for maybe being a bit harsh? (maybe)
One of my pet peeves is people having (or getting) misleading information. There seems to be so much of it in our industry, that sometimes I feel compelled to say something without having to write a book about it.
I should also say, that I did not mean to speak for Randy or Jill - but simply use their statement/actions as an example in my explanation.
In continuing on topic - Randy highlighted some of the best ones available (IMO) and there are others that cost little to nothing. But for the sake of our discussion, I would like to try and stay within this $250 per month figure as a baseline I believe almost any business can afford... fair enough?
As mentioned, $250 goes a long way on a great Press Release. Not just a Press Release, but a great Press Release! And this is a one time expense, not a monthly cost, and at this price could even include a professional to help you write one.
It is hard for me to pick a favorite, but one of them is certainly Articles. I know, I know, you have heard all these before, but do you use them? Hearing us at the Forum is one thing, using the suggestions means taking action and experiencing the results. I still get consistent monthly traffic from articles I wrote in 2003 and prior. You (or your website) are claiming to be an authority on something whether a service or a product - you have to be in order to try and sell someone anything. Someone in your organization should write about it and post these articles - not only to your website, but to websites around the World... (through announcements or article submission sites of which there are many) - or even a Press Release on a superior publication. Just so you don't think I'm blowing smoke, try looking up Unique Selling Propositions. Sales and Marketing professionals look stuff like this up when they want to understand or implement a new or misunderstood strategy. I still receive traffic from this article every single day!!! I will say it again - every single day. Now multiply this by more than a dozen or more similar articles (for this industry) and it turns into quite substantial traffic on a monthly basis. Qualified prospects you ask? It depends on what you are selling - You then also gain the status of an expert Author when applied properly... wouldn't you like your online business to be seen as having the experts in your category? Sure you would. I could go on, but there are other areas I want to comment on here. Had to add.... the incoming links your website receives are absolutely incredible.
Ads - Well of course Ads Scott - that's why they call it Advertising. But where and how much? Let's start within your category. Some other websites (that existed before yours) were the Hubs in their category before you came along and hopefully upset their seat. You should already know many of them if you did a good job in your research in other areas... you already know who does show up in the first 3 pages of serps for your industry KW phrases right? Now, consider swwapping Ads with them - not just links on a link page, but Ads - try it for free first before talking dollars with anyone. Then move towards the budget of $250 a month for this exercise. Believe it or not, I have shared traffic with competing website without any degredation to either of our qualified prospect numbers - you both benefit. People want the best information, education or advice - and trust me when I say they WILL seek it out. You need exposure to your site - they already have a degree of exposure in your industry, use them, offer them an exclusive article or White Paper that benefits their existing customers too - they are happy to post it... it adds value to their website too. Are you getting this? Outside of writing the content, this is almost FREE - and you have also added some awesome links from this practice too. Again, I could go on... but hope you see our direction here.
Take it one step further, consider a Joint Venture with a select few of these firms (competitors? or allies) and don't be afraid to be picky here. What if your services or products could be combined with their products or services? Now there's a concept... Supporting an exclusive and Special Offer found only on your two websites and independent promotions. If you do not see an immediate fit, then create that special product or service offer, and then go back to the Press Release example and further promote this venture. Again, a much deeper concept that time and space does not allow for complete coverage here.
O.K., how about just using their existing email list and being mentioned or promoted in their next Newsletter! They already have a list, they are (some) of potentially the same prospects to your complimentary business solution. Complimentary being the keyword here - not competing product or service - once they arrive at your website, you have the opportunity to sway them or sell them on those products. $250 can also buy a list - or take a 3 month budget of $750 and expand on the idea.
Offline stuff... Where do you publish your URL? Again, for people who may not be searching online? (At least not yet). Of course I can assume it is on your business cards, letterhead, and Signature files on EVERY email of EVERY employee in your organization... and that signature file includes your color logo (branding) and links to your chosen home or landing page. Is your URL in your Yellow page Ad that you old school people still pay for? Or any other advertising you do? I see so many Ads in my mail that still do not mention their website and yet they have one?!? Your website can be selling them at 3:00 a.m. when they can't sleep, or any other hour when your actual phone is not being answered. Speaking of phones, are you providing that web address in your voicemail message? Or your On-hold recording? Stating that your frequently asked questions page could address a number of their concerns immediately...
Well, there is much more, and I hope others feel free to chime in on what has worked for them as my time is up and HR is pulling me off the stage with the proverbial hook cane by my neck.
Maybe some of my articles can help you? And you don't pay for it or me... but can learn a few more ways to promote your business and increase your qualified traffic. Funny how with all this discussion I never mentioned our own organic search engine results or any PPC advertising... And do not be afraid to try something new! Just because someone else did not think of it or is not using it in their industry, does not mean it will not work for you. I have lost more than $250 on trying new stuff - just like 1dmf and every other individual or business trying to further succeed online.
My time is up - I sincerely hope this helps get you all thinking...
Posted 09 January 2008 - 10:53 AM
The site i'm trying to promote is not our core company so employees emails, headed paper, business cards , none of this exist nor will it!
Direct competition affiliation won't work, it is too much a conflict of interest, then if you look at the product providers, they cannot endorse one company or website as they supply to the whole industry and cannot be 'seen' to favour one company over another, they like to play each other off and one not know what special relationship they might have with another competitor.
There are some related companies / websites i can approach for some kind of affiliation, and will target these when I have time to spend on furthering my campaign.
This Press Release sounds interesting, but what does it actually mean.
is it simply creating a press release section on the website and then writing press releases?
how do you publish them further? ezines must get bombarded everyday with 'articles' , what would make them publish yours over anyone elses?
as well as what would we even say in a press release? , we don't sell products, our service never changes, I thought SEO was never write anything for SEO's sake, and frankly there is nothing to 'Press Release' that I can think off, but then again i'm no sales / marketing guru that could make sand sound interesting to the arabs, so again, maybe i'm the wrong person to be thinking of the topic!
So if I can get some 'real' content / press release written, what do I do with it?
Posted 09 January 2008 - 12:30 PM
Certainly if you couldn't take any more business or sales, I would agree. No need to do any additional marketing or advertising of any sort if you have more business than you can handle.
That said, if you can take on more business or have more products to sell, a paid search campaign should indeed be on your list of things to do, and here's why...
If/when you can get it up to speed it will make you more $$ than you put into it. Now, you of course have to watch it like a hawk and measure it to make sure that's exactly what it's doing. But if/when you get it doing that, wouldn't it be foolish not to do it?
Where else can you put in one dollar and get out 2 or 3 or 7?
I'm sure there are probably some industries, services or products where you simply can't make it work like that, in which case don't do it. But how would you know unless you (or even better an experienced paid search practitioner) gives it a whirl?
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