23 replies to this topic

[NeilPeartRocks]

She did it - she finally did it. The VP couldn't stand writing checks any more. Not sure if she understands ROI - she is the accountant for the biz too anyway.
My concern is that although we do fine naturally SERP wise.. we are in highly competitive market ( who isn't - Real Estate for us) and I fell we really need that exposure of the PPC. What are the dangers of this? Relying on natural results? beside putting more pressure on me that is...

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Rob

[BBCoach]

NPR y'all can't possibly rank well for everything Real Estate related. If you have a site that has a lot of organic referrals, but want to throw a wider blanket for some of the areas where you don't rank well, then applying PPCs with precision can save money while also picking up those crumbs. However, to do it right requires a lot of research, but it's well worth it.

[nethy]

Well, you mentioned tracking ROI, I assume you mean some sort of estimate of the number of expressions of interest, enquiries, contacts etc. Ideally, you also have some sort of idea about subsequent events/actions such as the number of people that show up at auctions, inspections, make offers etc. ... even sales (though that's a hard one to quantify in your industry because a sale would have probably been made anyway).

Anyway, if you have an estimate of how much of this came from ppc, you can expect to lose that. If you don't have such an estimate, it will be virtually impossible to tell, even after the fact. This is because you probaby have some organic SE traffic, listings on other large real estate sites, newspapers, referals,signs, etc, etc.
Will anyone notice a %5-%10 drop in activities? Even if they do its very difficult to attribute to anything in particular.

The flip side of the analytics coin is using the data internally to drive desicions and argue your case. It may be too late for you (if the plug is already pulled) but if you have this type of trouble selling ideas up regularly have a look at this: http://www.kaushik.n...riven-boss.html
may get some good ideas.

[Jill]

She got rid of it without knowing whether it was making money or not? I guess you'll find out soon!

[incrediblehelp]

She got rid of it without knowing whether it was making money or not? I guess you'll find out soon!

Right? Why get rid of it if it was making money?

[KimHG]

Were the ppc urls coded to specifically track ppc traffic and conversions (in Analytics or other programs)? If they were you could show specific numbers to the VP. # of traffic from natural, # of traffic from ppc. # of conversions from natural. # of conversions from ppc. And most importantly ROI or CPA/cost per lead/etc of your ppc program.

If ppc urls weren't being coded/tracked separately, it's probably too late now to convince her to change her mind (without any proof to show her she's making a mistake). Unless there's a huge drop in traffic/conversions/leads overall that you could attribute solely to shutting off the ppc program.

[NeilPeartRocks]

WOW

Thanks everyone.. I am pretty sure the ROI was in the black - I think for a $5000 a month campaign.. we got $15K in return.. This place is crazy.. My thinking is to have the PPC because real estate is so competitive especially for a more generic term(s) that we need the PPC for exposure.

[RiYo]

If you are sure about the numbers, why not start your own business where you refer people to the site of the VP for a referral fee

richard

[Hank Cowdog]

Thanks everyone.. I am pretty sure the ROI was in the black - I think for a $5000 a month campaign.. we got $15K in return.. This place is crazy.. My thinking is to have the PPC because real estate is so competitive especially for a more generic term(s) that we need the PPC for exposure.

Was the $15K for conversions due to PPC only, or for the site as a whole (PPC and organic)? If for PPC only, a 3X return is likely acceptable. Factoring in the PPC managment fees would obviously lower the ROI.

If, on the other hand the $15K was the return for the whole site, and half or more of the traffic was organic in origin, then the loaded ROI might actually be too low to justify continuing the PPC spend - there might be better-return outlets for this spend.

Even if PPC was halted, assuming that conversion tracking was being done and the account was not deleted, the conversion information should still be out there.

If the site was a lead generation site, then sales due to PPC (as opposed to a conversion of filling out a contact form) might be harder to attribute specifically to PPC (or to credit a specific $$ value to a particular KW).

Seems to me it would have been sounder for the VP to ask the PPC manager to justify the expense before cutting it off.

We like doing conversion-centered PPC managment, because it makes explaining the value of the work that we do in managing the campaign easier to understand.

[jehochman]

If the campaign wasn't being tracked and managed properly, she may have made the right decision.

[Nueromancer]

She got rid of it without knowing whether it was making money or not? I guess you'll find out soon!

And you didnt put google anlaytics on it just basic google analytics will give you a split between organic and paid enough to see if your vp has made a good choice or shot your site in the foot.

[nethy]

If the campaign wasn't being tracked and managed properly, she may have made the right decision.

Agreed. It is not enough for an investment to have potential. It needs to be achieving it. If it comes to a choice between spending for an unknown benefit & not spending (knowing is not a concievable option), its not unreasonable to cut the chord.

In an area like real estate (one of the online markets), it is very possible that you where paying more then you could afford to meet goals. It may be possible that you were not. Either way, ppc management should be able to justify itself to its own management with hard data that is clearly understandable. Its part of the job & its as important as knowing G! regulations & guidelines, writing ads, and everything else that is inolved in the game.

In most cases, if you have hard data that is understood by desicion makers (complaining that they don't understand is not useful, it's like complaining that Google don't get it and they are stupid for giving you a low quality score) the campaign will usually be maintained at some level. I am sure there are some keywords that you can afford to bid something for. That may result in 10% of the previousspend, but it'll result in more then 10% (possibly even 30%-50%) of the benefit. But you need data and control to cut down a campaign this way.

[BlueSky]

I think for a $5000 a month campaign.. we got $15K in return.. This place is crazy..

Yikes. If I was only getting 3 dollars for every dollar spent on PPC, I would have canned it too. Spending 33% per sale on marketing is not sustainable in most businesses!

[TrishT]

I am in the consumer goods vertical and am trying to shut down some of my PPC and all of the shopping comparison engines because my ROI stinks. Costs are ranging upwards of 35% of sale and approaching 10% of total site sales. I can't afford it. But every time I bring this up, the VP of IT hollers that we will lose all our placement in organic search and convinces my boss, VP Merchandising, that we need to keep pouring $$$ in a black hole. Analytics show that 41% of my traffic is organic and 17% is direct plus a CPA affiliate program, with controlled costs, is a major contributor. But the PPC is sucking down all my resources.

So this discussion is very important to my 2008 strategy. Question: if I shut down my shopping comparison engines but keep my PPC like Yahoo and Google Adwords (both are performing okay--not great), am I suddenly going to disappear from the organic. I don't think so and have been working diligently to keyword write product descriptions (thanks, Karon) and add content.

Anybody got any numbers I can take into this battle with me?

[RiYo]

Hi Trish, maybe I misunderstand you, but there is NO relation between PPC and organic searches.

Running PPC ads does not help you organically.

So if you shut down your engines it will most probably hurt you (depending on how well the engines are doing organically of course ). PPC will not prevent that from happening

richard