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Unique Urls


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86 replies to this topic

#76 Randy

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 10:43 AM

Have you ever actually conducted any Usability surveys with real test subjects internetdominus?

If not, you might want to do that to test your theory.

Why do I say that?

Because I used to think the exact url approach was better too and the times I have posed such scenarios in my market research (eg telling them an exact url to go to or giving them an domain only and having them search the site for a subject) not only have more people gotten to the correct page with a domain->search approach, but the vast majority say this is an easier exercise for them to complete.

FTR, the results were exactly the opposite if you sent them an email or used some other method to provide them a link. In those cases the exact url was better across the board.

#77 bwelford

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 11:17 AM

Of course if they use the Google Chrome browser, then there is only one box and you can put whichever you prefer, URL or keywords. smile.gif

.. and BTW the new Google Chrome Beta version for the adventurous is pleasingly faster than before.

#78 Jill

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 11:18 AM

QUOTE
So, again it is all about users, and how they behave and think, we just gotta make it easier for them, and that is what marketing is all about satisfying customers wants and needs.


If you said the url was www.buyshoesnow.com/blackpumps33

Then I would agree with you. But the URL you wrote, was not what I would call phone-friendly.

#79 BBCoach

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 03:01 PM

internetdominus: If it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to add keywords in the URLs (for whatever perceived reason), then by all means don't let my testing or logic stop you.

I'm not participating in this discussion about keyword stuffing/URL creating discussion again because most wanna be SEOs that believe this have never conducted side-by-side testing to determine whether or not it's true. And besides, my 30,000+ product pages (without a single keyword on any page) are driving $2+ million/month in SE referral revenues. Each month continues to surpass the previous month in terms of SE revenues. For example, we went from 53% SE referrals in January to 59% SE referrals in February, and March is averaging out to 60% (for all of our web traffic).

BTW, when it turns out that I'm incorrect/wrong I do eat crow as Jill knows. So look me up when you have indisputable proof. That goes for you to Qwerty.

#80 internetdominus

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE(BBCoach @ Mar 19 2009, 03:01 PM) View Post
internetdominus: If it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to add keywords in the URLs (for whatever perceived reason), then by all means don't let my testing or logic stop you.

I'm not participating in this discussion about keyword stuffing/URL creating discussion again because most wanna be SEOs that believe this have never conducted side-by-side testing to determine whether or not it's true. And besides, my 30,000+ product pages (without a single keyword on any page) are driving $2+ million/month in SE referral revenues. Each month continues to surpass the previous month in terms of SE revenues. For example, we went from 53% SE referrals in January to 59% SE referrals in February, and March is averaging out to 60% (for all of our web traffic).

BTW, when it turns out that I'm incorrect/wrong I do eat crow as Jill knows. So look me up when you have indisputable proof. That goes for you to Qwerty.



When did I say to keyword stuff? When did I talk in SEO terms? I clearly said keep your customer in mind, I talked in business marketing terms, as I think that is what matters most.

You had 59% referrals? Well, I have a site about weight loss with 40% referrals who type in the url and the url starts with a subdomain with the words lose-fat, I know it is a subdomains and has nothing to do with url rewriting, but this is in online with my statement about having easy urls to remember. What percentage of your visitos type in the url directly on their browser without having to use a search engine to find you? naughty.gif 2 million bucks a month? what's the ROI? How many visitors does it take you get to 2 million, I get around 10,000 visitors per month, and on average make 4k to 6k from that site through adsense, ebooks, cj fat loss products, and newsletter offerings, and so far that is my best converting site. My focus is conversions, not getting visitors who do nothing on my site, and as far as I understand adding two or three words to you url does not qualify as keyword stuffing, it is not like are adding 50 keywords, and though I use SEO, that for me is one more tool to get to grab and satisfying a customer need. You believe you are on the right path, great congratulations, I am only sharing my experiences here.

offtopic.gif And please, I know this is off topic, but stop calling people ignorant or wannabes, remember that reflects on you as each person looks at other people the way they see themselves. Share your experiences without having to go personal, k pal? crossfingers.gif

#81 BBCoach

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 06:40 PM

Seriously, internetdominus, I didn't address you directly and I said, "most wannabes". Sorry, but if the shoe fits.... Why won't I back down on saying "ignorant or wannabes?" Because there are way too many wannabes (and scammers) running around trying to sell their secret formulas to SE ranking heaven while bilking thousands of dollars from companies; therefore, making it that much harder for those of us that are legit (which impacts our bottom-line).

BTW, I never go personal. Why? Because I don't know anyone here personally and I also don't take anything written personally.

This thread is about keywordy URLs and not the marketing aspect of verbal referrals. Your inferred injection to the discussion was that it does matter and it also matters for giving a verbal reference to the page, as your reply further clarifies:
QUOTE
and though I use SEO, that for me is one more tool to get to grab and satisfying a customer need.

QUOTE
What percentage of your visitos [sic] type in the url directly on their browser without having to use a search engine to find you?
Right now 40% on average.
QUOTE
2 million bucks a month? what's the ROI?
Very high! whitehat.gif
QUOTE
How many visitors does it take you get to 2 million, I get around 10,000 visitors per month, and on average make 4k to 6k from that site through adsense, ebooks, cj fat loss products, and newsletter offerings, and so far that is my best converting site.
It's $2+ million and we're getting over 1.7 million SE referrals/month with the site serving more than 21 million pages/month.
QUOTE
My focus is conversions, not getting visitors who do nothing on my site
My bread and butter too. Unfortunately, there are many factors beyond my control that contribute to a lower conversion rate than I want, but that 2+ million costs us exactly $0 in marketing efforts.
QUOTE
and as far as I understand adding two or three words to you url does not qualify as keyword stuffing
Matter of interpretation. I think it does qualify and I've said so previously.
QUOTE
I am only sharing my experiences here.
Me too and I'm bored discussing this worn out topic. Since you only have 11 posts you're not as tired as I am. Have fun with it. BTW, that's a serious suggestion and not a smart-arse one. Maybe you can shed some light on the topic or learn something from it, but I'm not going to discuss whether or not keywords in the URL do or do not contribute anything towards helping a page get ranked.

#82 internetdominus

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:31 AM

QUOTE(Randy @ Mar 19 2009, 10:43 AM) View Post
Have you ever actually conducted any Usability surveys with real test subjects internetdominus?

If not, you might want to do that to test your theory.

Why do I say that?

Because I used to think the exact url approach was better too and the times I have posed such scenarios in my market research (eg telling them an exact url to go to or giving them an domain only and having them search the site for a subject) not only have more people gotten to the correct page with a domain->search approach, but the vast majority say this is an easier exercise for them to complete.

FTR, the results were exactly the opposite if you sent them an email or used some other method to provide them a link. In those cases the exact url was better across the board.



Hello Randy, NO I have not actually conducted surveys, simply because it would be time consuming, and perhaps constly (as many already know) but I have read books like Don't Make Me Think by Krug, The Design of Sites by Van Duyne, Deliver Fist Class Websites by Keiser, and some others, and their recommendations made me realize how sites should be constructed to avoid user confusion/car abandonment, etc. I think you don't necessarily have to do the research or surveys when good feedback tells you what works, and of course, you should never base your decisions on one single source. Never do, never will, and Seth Godin says research is done by large consultants, so you can later blame them for failures, and hire and another consultant. Best approach at the end is trial and error, and for that you have a simple split testing approach. smile.gif

#83 internetdominus

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:39 AM

QUOTE(BBCoach @ Mar 19 2009, 06:40 PM) View Post
Seriously, internetdominus, I didn't address you directly and I said, "most wannabes". Sorry, but if the shoe fits.... Why won't I back down on saying "ignorant or wannabes?" Because there are way too many wannabes (and scammers) running around trying to sell their secret formulas to SE ranking heaven while bilking thousands of dollars from companies; therefore, making it that much harder for those of us that are legit (which impacts our bottom-line).

BTW, I never go personal. Why? Because I don't know anyone here personally and I also don't take anything written personally.

This thread is about keywordy URLs and not the marketing aspect of verbal referrals. Your inferred injection to the discussion was that it does matter and it also matters for giving a verbal reference to the page, as your reply further clarifies:
Right now 40% on average.
Very high! whitehat.gif
It's $2+ million and we're getting over 1.7 million SE referrals/month with the site serving more than 21 million pages/month.
My bread and butter too. Unfortunately, there are many factors beyond my control that contribute to a lower conversion rate than I want, but that 2+ million costs us exactly $0 in marketing efforts.
Matter of interpretation. I think it does qualify and I've said so previously.
Me too and I'm bored discussing this worn out topic. Since you only have 11 posts you're not as tired as I am. Have fun with it. BTW, that's a serious suggestion and not a smart-arse one. Maybe you can shed some light on the topic or learn something from it, but I'm not going to discuss whether or not keywords in the URL do or do not contribute anything towards helping a page get ranked.


May I ask what website you are specifically talking about?

You should be proud of it, and show it off with 1.7 million visitors, and 2 million revenue per month.

It will also help for other small business owners like me as an example to follow.

It will also be a great way to reinforce your statements, unless of course, the website is doing something inappropriate, and must keep in the the dark.

I am pretty sure your customer won't mind some free publicity, and the moderator here won't mind unless you are posting an affiliate link.

#84 Randy

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 06:47 AM

QUOTE
so you can later blame them for failures, and hire and another consultant. Best approach at the end is trial and error, and for that you have a simple split testing approach.


ahhh, it's always easier to blame someone else. wink1.gif

Split and Multivariate testing are certainly tools one should have in their toolbox. I firmly believe this and am constantly testing different things.

That said, market research with live test subjects, who can give you immediate feedback you simply cannot get from more anonymous testing also has its place in the mix IMHO. And if done correctly can be both incredibly enlightening and exceedingly cost effective. I tend to sponsor market research sessions 3-4 times per year. My cash layout is typically between $2,000 and $5,000 per test, depending upon how many test subjects are in each test, how long its going to take, etc.

Because the sample size is smaller I typically take the results of the market surveys, where I get information/feedback that is a lot more specific, and use it to set up split or multivariate tests to further prove or disprove my interpretations of the market survey data. Bottom line for me is the market surveys accelerate my other testing. And the cost is a pittance. If I find just one thing that improves conversion from each survey, it pays for itself in under a month.

Books and reviewing others test data is extremely helpful. But at the end of the day I've found that being able to formulate my own questions and get feedback specifically to my questions is even more helpful. To me this is just a cost of doing business, so is a cost that is built into my budget each year.

#85 BBCoach

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 09:01 AM

This is off-topic, but I'll answer anyway.
QUOTE
May I ask what website you are specifically talking about?
Sure you can ask, but I'm not going to tell. Why? Because I berate both management and marketing ideas in that company openly here and I don't want to embarrass them publicly, which would also not be good for me.
QUOTE
You should be proud of it, and show it off with 1.7 million visitors, and 2 million revenue per month.
I am, but this goes towards private stuff like my resume and bid proposals. I don't have to prove anything to anyone here in this forum. Judge what I say compared to what others say. I don't know it all and never claim to, but I do know more than a lot of others because of my testing.
QUOTE
It will also help for other small business owners like me as an example to follow.
No it won't. If you don't believe what I'm honestly saying here, then evaluating that site won't make you any better because you won't understand the why of doing what I did. Besides, why make it easier for someone too lazy to perform their own tests or too lazy to read the many pinned threads in this forum? I've been testing for more than 10 years and will share what I know to a point. That point being to tell you something and then let you test it to judge the results. I only give advise that I believe to be accurate as a result of my testing and if I don't know I'll say that as well. BTW, I strongly recommend you drop CJ if you're an established website (>2 years live). Big rip off unless you watch them closely and selectively choose good and honest affiliates. Do a complete ROI evaluation on CJ to determine if it's really worth continuing. That's several years of personal experience. After dropping CJ our sales dramatically increased as well as our rankings in SEs. Seriously.

Edited by BBCoach, 25 March 2009 - 09:22 AM.


#86 internetdominus

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 01:40 PM

Hmm...I knew your answer already. Maybe I should be psychic instead of an online marketer wannabe. smile.gif

#87 BBCoach

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 01:55 PM

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Hmm...I knew your answer already. Maybe I should be psychic instead of an online marketer wannabe.
With that kind of accuracy it might pay better in the long run. oldfogey.gif




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