9 replies to this topic

[jvanv8]

I have a site that has thousands of products that have text describing the product supplied by various sources (usually the manufacturer). The text block is typically used on the page but the site also incorporates it's own elements (links, review pages, accessory listing etc).
Because of the huge-ness of the website, I would expect that they would be getting some traffic from search engines but they usually only get a few per day. Some pages are ranked but the only real way to discover them is if you include their domain name or if there was a misspelling on their website.

I am guessing that there could be a duplicate content issue here. Its hard to tell though... using the Similar Page checker:
[removed]
Typically shows that their pages are usually 15-50% similar to the supplier of the information.

I've been trying to think of ways to make the pages more unique... added creative and unique meta tags, added a unique paragraph (1-2 sentences) that is 100% unique as I created a "dictionary" to create a random sentence that fills in info with the product information. ...something like "The [product name] is now on sale for [price] and can ship out in [time] days" with the words not in brackets changing randomly (ie, "on sale" might say "for the discount price of" for another product)

I've even thought about hiding the manufacturer's description in flash. There are probably still an number of keyword rich sentences that would not be effected.

Creating unique text for each product is out of the question. You would need a ton of employees to do such a task... plus it could introduce errors to the descriptions which are important to get correct (specs etc).

The main website has a PR of 3 and a top 100,000 alexa ranking (meaningless, I know but.. just for added info I thought I'd put that in)
Just about 100% of their customers have to be obtained using ppc.
Any ideas?

[Jill]

I think your first mistake is in thinking that because a site is huge it will somehow get indexed and ranked.

Unless you have a way of differentiating your site from the millions of others selling the same products, you really don't stand a chance of organic SEO success and might want to just try other forms of marketing and advertising.

[jvanv8]

Hi Jill,
I guess I didn't clarify enough that the site is different from all the others and gets good feedback from those who are able to find it.
However the block of text used for the description is similar to other sites... there is much more on the page though.

Also note that some desired search phrases aren't all that competitive, maybe just a few hundred results. But their site always seems to be near the bottom or not listed.

Would it be better off if this text was left out?

[davebob spongepants]

What about other issues such as page titles? How clean are the pages (i.e. seo friendly design or gobbly-gook code)? In a lot of cases the content is either hard for the engines to distinguish or the other pieces of the seo puzzle aren't matching what's on the page...

Tough to say without having a look at the site.

[nethy]

is now on sale for [price] and can ship out in [time] days" with the words not in brackets changing randomly (ie, "on sale" might say "for the discount price of" for another product)

It would be interesting if you would take that a step further and determine which of these random combinations convert customers better.

I've even thought about hiding the manufacturer's description in flash. There are probably still an number of keyword rich sentences that would not be effected.

Creating unique text for each product is out of the question. You would need a ton of employees to do such a task... plus it could introduce errors to the descriptions which are important to get correct (specs etc).

Why not start small, dedicate the resources to re-write the descriptions for a few products andgive it a few months. If the result is OK (generating enough good traffic to justify the resource expended) then consider dedicatingthe resources to go all the way. If you take this (gradual) path you may have a more reasonable prediction of the potential returns from this activity (copywriting) before commiting to full scale re-working of the site.

For example, you could say: "we achieved a total of 10000 clicks for the period leading to $X in sales/enquiries/etc." Compare it to the profitabity of PPC and make a desicion based on that. Its often the case that SEO is a better way of using resources then PPC, but not always.

[chrishirst]

to davebob

[jvanv8]

The page titles are basically the name of the product. Should I add in unique text there, name of the site etc? Originally I thought it would get too long.
Or should I really try to rearrange the product name for the title?

Also, what is the consensus on images... the main image (only 1 on the page that includes several dozen) is direct from the manuf. Should I try to serve this up locally? Or place into flash?

As for writing unique text. I have tried but the products that I wrote the copy for are still not listed in search engines. Could be lack of incoming links, although there are several sites that point links to it (the SERPs just don't know about it I guess).

Rewriting text for some or most of the pages doesn't seem feasable. It is estimated that it would take about 400,000 pages (of text file pages of pure text) to rewrite everything. I've written a few papers in my day but none longer than 20 pages, and that took a significant amount of time

No one has addressed the idea of placing the product information inside flash while keeping their unique content in plain html. Good idea or no?

[jvanv8]

oh, also, in response to clean seo coding or "gobbily-gook" it is very clean. No tables, all layers, css... most important text at top, unique metas (probably not a big advantage but why not try) h1 tags, short seo urls, no "print friendly pages" etc, text menu, layout almost entirely css with very few images used for layout purposes. No flash, no AJAX, no javascript except to view larger image. For the most part, it is XHTML-Strict and validates (sometimes a page element might give a warning or two but it's valid for the majority).

Edited by jvanv8, 30 October 2007 - 07:24 AM.

[Randy]

Rewriting text for some or most of the pages doesn't seem feasable.

That being the case, you're destined to keep the same problem you've described. And that's the bottom line. The engines are almost always going to consider the manufacturers own site to be the definitive resource. So you're basically going to be left with purchasing PPC traffic and working to make sure you can convert enough of it to make a profit.

[jmedley]

I have a site that has thousands of products that have text describing the product supplied by various sources (usually the manufacturer). The text block is typically used on the page but the site also incorporates it's own elements (links, review pages, accessory listing etc).
Because of the huge-ness of the website, I would expect that they would be getting some traffic from search engines but they usually only get a few per day. Some pages are ranked but the only real way to discover them is if you include their domain name or if there was a misspelling on their website.

I am guessing that there could be a duplicate content issue here. Its hard to tell though... using the Similar Page checker:
[removed]
Typically shows that their pages are usually 15-50% similar to the supplier of the information.

I've been trying to think of ways to make the pages more unique... added creative and unique meta tags, added a unique paragraph (1-2 sentences) that is 100% unique as I created a "dictionary" to create a random sentence that fills in info with the product information. ...something like "The [product name] is now on sale for [price] and can ship out in [time] days" with the words not in brackets changing randomly (ie, "on sale" might say "for the discount price of" for another product)

I've even thought about hiding the manufacturer's description in flash. There are probably still an number of keyword rich sentences that would not be effected.

Creating unique text for each product is out of the question. You would need a ton of employees to do such a task... plus it could introduce errors to the descriptions which are important to get correct (specs etc).

The main website has a PR of 3 and a top 100,000 alexa ranking (meaningless, I know but.. just for added info I thought I'd put that in)
Just about 100% of their customers have to be obtained using ppc.
Any ideas?

With any kind of e-commerce site, its going to be automately harder to do anything. Establish and grow on sales first thing, this will keep sales going. Next i would slowly evaluate your site, add links, fix content, gain authority, press release. Basically spread the word and news to get more sales and then worry about Google lastly.