34 replies to this topic

[Jill]

In case you missed my Search Engine Land article this week, I thought I'd mention it here as I believe it's a good topic for further discussion. (I don't particularly like the new title Chris Sherman gave it: "Avoiding Clueless-is as Clueless-does SEO" as it was originally titled "Have SEOs Lost the Plot?" So I'm going with that one! )

Sometimes I think SEOs have lost the plot. Not all SEOs, mind you, but many, especially the newbies. It’s like they don’t understand the reason for doing the SEO things that they know they need to do. I think many walk around with a checklist of SEO-type duties and set off to do them, yet they have no clue as to why.

Let me know what you think. And also, if you like it and are a member of Sphinn, please give it a Sphinn. I think this one got a little lost there yesterday as it was really busy there and the person who Sphunn it didn't mention it was by me or from Search Engine Land.

[qwerty]

Well, apart from the fact that the concept of a harmonica cleaning business is just disgusting I agree with every word.

[Jill]

Offtopic

Someone's gotta clean 'dem dere harmonicas!

[torka]

Well, apart from the fact that the concept of a harmonica cleaning business is just disgusting

Not half as disgusting as the concept of playing a filthy germ-ridden harmonica...

--Torka

[Jill]

Aside from the harmonicas...any REAL comments?

[BlueSky]

Perhaps we should coin a new term: "Checklist SEO" vs real SEO. I would like to believe that Checklist SEO's are clueless, but my experience is that they know very well they're cheating clients out of meaningful services.

[Jill]

Well checklist SEO isn't necessarily bad as long as you understand what you're checking off and why you're checking it off. The trouble comes in when you got a checklist from somewhere, but have no idea as to what it means.

Which is basically the same thing as people reading that you should put X amount of characters in the Title tag, for instance. No you shouldn't. There is no special X amount that is right for every page. But since someone once said it on the internet it somehow becomes gospel. Same with any numbers or formulas for SEO. Just like the 250 words for page thing. I made that number up 7 or 8 years ago and now it's repeated everywhere!

[BlueSky]

Well checklist SEO isn't necessarily bad as long as you understand what you're checking off and why you're checking it off. The trouble comes in when you got a checklist from somewhere, but have no idea as to what it means.

Perhaps you should revise that number to something odd, like 317 words per page and see if it sticks :-)

I will try to explain where I am coming from: In your experience, have you ever worked on a site that could have received all the attention you consider necessary for comprehensive SEO, simply by using a checklist? As far as I know, how to write a page that is interesting to the audience and also juicy for the search engines is not something that can be done with a checklist. So, my understanding is that SEO checklists can cover the basic technical requirements for SEO, but that's only the beginning of getting noticed.

I don't do SEO, so you'll have to tell me if I am off base!

[piskie]

Just like the 250 words for page thing. I made that number up 7 or 8 years ago and now it's repeated everywhere!

So Jill does have a sense of humour as well as a lot to answer for as this "250 Words" requirement is deeply enshrined in some quarters.

[jansie]

So could you explain what checklist seo is? and what is real seo? i am curious, since i am new to web design, let alone seo. i must admit the whole web design and marketing business is quite fascinating, and also scary!

[Ignoramus]

Well checklist SEO isn't necessarily bad as long as you understand what you're checking off and why you're checking it off. The trouble comes in when you got a checklist from somewhere, but have no idea as to what it means.

An analogy might be using a checklist to pre-flight an aircraft before take-off.

It's a handy tool to make sure you haven't missed anything but if you don't understand what the gauges and dials are actually saying you can still depart in a potentially dangerous plane.

[Jill]

Jansie, if you read the original article, I think it's explained there. Basically, checklist SEO would be going through the motions of checking off what needs to be done without actually knowing why you're doing it.

What makes that bad is you won't actually do a good job of what you're doing without understanding the reasoning behind it.

[lyn]

Jill, I think what you're describing is a common to many creative undertakings.
First, you have to buy into the idea that SEO is fundamentally a creative exercise!

There are lots of "how-to" guides out there for, say, copywriting and graphic design and typography and film-making, etc, that help you understand some of the fundamental principles that usually underlie a successful piece of work.

But you can't simply follow the how-to list and expect to create a succesful new piece of work. You have to practice and practice and critique and practice and experiment and practice and fail and practice and... eventually the how-to stuff gets ingrained into you enough that you move past the check list to get on with the creative part!

If you're lucky, you learn that you can sometimes ignore or bend parts of the list and create something better. Or maybe, instead, you realize that you simply don't have the talent and all the check lists in the world aren't going to make you any good at it.

The tools are not the craft!

L.

[SERPico]

Checklists are fine. I have created my own that we use at High Rankings for sites. But a checklist is only good if you understand WHY you need to check for certain things.

Hi Jill, quote taken from within the comment section,

As you know i am not a professional SEO, i have read many articles and blog posts, etc and when i for instance add a Page Title i just think that i need to make it descriptive for the visitors, but also keep keywords in mind that i can get traffic for, in other words if keyword A is highly competive but keyword B is not, but Keyword Dsicovery gives me a very decent result for keyword B then i rather go with B...that is if it is just as relevant as keyword A.

As it does have to match the theme of the page.

So in my mind i am basically working of a checklist as well and i think most of the things i do are things even when you're not well versed in SEO makes common sense, like a descriptive page title.

Coming back to the article where you mentioned,

Joe doesn't have to know SEO to do a great job with his harmonica cleaning. Nor should he have to. In fact, if he did know SEO (or thought he did), he might go messing up a good thing. He might hear about this linking thing, and start trading links with everyone and anyone who was ready, willing, and able. Soon Joe would have a page on his website that linked to Betty's Cat Farm in Oregon. And one to a casino in Reno. And hundreds of others that were of no use to the people looking to get their harmonicas cleaned. When he didn't know about SEO, Joe was only linking to the local harmonica store website and his friend Jimmy who cleans tubas. Real links. Real votes. Real reason for Google to make sure that they count for something.

Should he be trading links to everyone and anyone then he would be working from a wrong checklist now wouldn't he

Working from a checklist isn't a bad thing, it just needs to be a good checklist speaking of which, know of any good ones Jill?

Perhaps you could share the one you mentioned in the above quote?
Or is that classified?

[Jill]

Agreed, Serpico, working from a checklist in and of itself isn't bad, which I think I've said either here or in the actual article comments.

As to my checklist, sorry, a girl's gotta have SOME secrets. My checklist is from 12 years of knowledge, and isn't just something like "Title Tags - Check"! It provides our clients with what we're looking at, why we're looking at it, and what is wrong with what we found (or what is right with it as the case may be).

Of course, if you'd like to order one of our custom site audit reports, you will get a copy along with how it applies to your particular site.