175 replies to this topic

[Jill]

I start with the keyword phrases that are the MOST relevant to my site. I don't really care if they're "easy," "hard" or indifferent. If they're relevant to the site, especially MOST relevant, then those are what I need to start with.

[emilyquickfix]

So I need to analyse at least the fist 10 - 20 pages which are produced after I conduct a normal search for my keyphrase.

However, if the intitle: inanchor: type search is an initial indicator as to how much serious competition is out there (taking into account factors such as linking, content, keyword density and placement which I can research once I conduct my analysis on these sites), wouldn't it benefit me to analyse the top 10 pages produced when doing an intitle: inanchor type search?

Or

Is this type of search just telling me how many professional/serious competitors I am up against for that keyphrase? Basically a number indicator.

Also, Emily, just so that we will know ... Did our post help you at all? Was it useful for you? Did you learn anything new?

Or did our post just confuse you and do you wish that we wouldn't have posted at all.

Please be honest and let us know because your feedback will be most useful and appreciative for us and don't worry about hurting our feelings, because we decided a long time ago that we were going to check our ego's at the door before entering into any public forums.

Your Friends,

Sharon and Roy Montero

Ok, since you asked...

I found your replies too long winded. They also tended to drift too far away from the actual question I was originally asking.

The way they were worded was also quite hard to understand for somebody like me who is still trying to grapple the in's and out's of the whole SEO thing.

But I really do appreciate the time it took you to answer my questions and appreciate your help. So thankyou.

Emily

[DanThies]

obviously we weren't very clear in explaining

Have you ever tried using fewer words?

Well, we would advise her to start with the keyword phrases that require the least amount of work to achieve a top 10 ranking for.

This topic has already gone where it needn't have gone, since it was originally about measuring keyword competition, but I'll figure out how to split it later.

Given that it takes time for external links to be developed and recognized by search engines, I would probably advise Emily to first map out and create content related to the "hard" search terms which will require support from off-site links, so that she can begin to work on those links immediately (or delegate/outsource the task).

I say probably, because this strategic recommendation would depend on many factors such as her business priorities and data from keyword research which AFAIK none of us has conducted.

Or did our post just confuse you and do you wish that we wouldn't have posted at all.

No, thanks for posting... I just wish I didn't have to figure out how to split this thread.

Once again DO NOT FORGET that ultimately the number of competing pages for a top 10 listing is 10.

I think you mean that the number of pages succeeding in reaching a top 10 ranking is 10, right?

Edited by DanThies, 09 March 2005 - 10:13 PM.

[emilyquickfix]

Hello again,

I'm currently analysing the top ranking 10 - 20 pages for my list of keyphrases to try and figure out which ones I should eventually target.

I am looking at each page in great detail and analysing them on a number of things.

It seems that quite often at the end of my analysis of the competitor's page I am confident that with the right optimization for that particular keyphrase, I can beat them.

However when I look at the competitor's site as a whole to check out their link popularity and overall content, my confidence diminishes as they are well established sites.

Should I be concerned about any aspects of the entire site (especailly when looking at things such as link popularity and content)? Or should I only be concerned with the link popularity of that particular page and how good the content is on that page only? (N.B. this is not all I am analysing the page on. I have a whole spread sheet that covers lots of other aspects which I won't go into right now as they are not relevant).

Cheers,
Emily

[dawndelcastillo]

Dan:

What a fantastic write up here, I had the pleasure of seeing you in Seattle and you had mentioned some of these techniques in your presentation and guess what? I came home and immediately put them into practice. I have found that this is the most effective way to really determine competition and also find great keywords.. You are one smart cookie and it is an honor to be part of this forum with you..


Have a fantastic day.. When is your new book out?

Dawn

[torka]

To spare Dan the indigity of hawking his own work... it's out now:

http://www.sitepoint.com/books/sem1/



--Torka

[Sharon & Roy]

Hello again,

I'm currently analyzing the top ranking 10 - 20 pages for my list of keyphrases to try and figure out which ones I should eventually target.

Hi Emily,

This is the very question we anticipated that you would eventually ask so we addressed it in our earlier posts but obviously we ended up confusing you more than we did helping you at the time, so we'll address this issue again for you and start from the beginning.


OBJECTIVE: To know which keyword phrases to optimize my various Web pages for first. In other words how do I discover my most productive "money words" (keyword phrases that produce profits)?

Step 1: Start with a list of (at least) 100 keyword phrases (lists of more than 100 are always better, but a good start is a list of 100 RELEVANT keyword phrases) and just list them in any order.

Step 2: Once you have your INITIAL list of keyword phrases your goal now becomes to list them in order of ROI (Return on Investment). In other words, you should now list those keyword phrases that will provide you with the highest return on your investment at the top of your list and those with the lowest (or no) return on your investment at the bottom of your list.

Step 3: Arrange your list according to the amount of competition by using Google's < intitle: > and < allinanchor: > operators. Place the keyword phrases with the least amount of competition at the top of your list. PLEASE NOTE: Just because a keyword phrase has the least amount of competition doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the one with the highest return on your investment. Additional research must still be done to determine those keywords with the highest ROI. Also, keep in mind that just because one keyword phrase has less competition than another does NOT mean that it will be easier to optimize for. Remember that ultimately you will be competing with those pages that already occupy the top 10 results so it would be wise to also analyze those pages in order to determine which keyword phrases are really the easiest ones to optimize (SEO) for.

Step 4:: Start with the keyword phrases listed at the top of the aforementioned list and create Google AdWords < http://www.google.com/ads/ > campaigns for them. We refer to this as SEM (Search Engine Marketing). By measuring the click through rates (CTR) and the sales conversions of each of your keyword phrases you'll soon have your list ordered in such a way that you can easily see which terms are your most profitable and arrange your new list according to the highest ROI.

Step 5: In this step you'll be able to determine which keyword phrases would be the best one(s) to start your optimization (SEO) process for. We suggest that you take your list from < Step 3 > and to compare it with your list from < Step 4 >. A quick scan of the top of these two lists should provide you with keyword phrases that are BOTH easy to optimize < Step 3 > and those that return the highest ROI < Step 4 >.

I am looking at each page in great detail and analyzing them on a number of things.

It seems that quite often at the end of my analysis of the competitor's page I am confident that with the right optimization for that particular keyphrase, I can beat them.

However when I look at the competitor's site as a whole to check out their link popularity and overall content, my confidence diminishes as they are well established sites.

Should I be concerned about any aspects of the entire site (especially when looking at things such as link popularity and content)? Or should I only be concerned with the link popularity of that particular page and how good the content is on that page only?

Search engines rank pages and not sites.

Your Friends,

Sharon and Roy Montero

[Jill]

To spare Dan the indigity of hawking his own work... it's out now:

http://www.sitepoint.com/books/sem1/



--Torka

Torka, we have a shortcut for that. Just type Dan Thies' new book and it automatically links to it!

[DanThies]

To spare Dan the indigity of hawking his own work...

As a shameless self-promoter, I don't mind hawking my own work at all. HAWK! HAWK!

Thanks for your kind words, Dawn.

[mal4mac]

Sure, you need to know some basics, e.g. Ayers Rock gets three times the search of Uluru, the rocks official, PC name, and colony countries don't call them "cell phones" but "mobile phones"

I'm British and we call them "mobile phones". Is colony countries Aussie slang for "Commonwealth"? Commonwealth is rather general, but "British Commonwealth" is rather Brit-centric. Difficult to think of a good PC term for "former British Empire"! It's only those uppity colonials with a penchant for disruptive tea parties that call them "cell phones", as far as I know. (Canada? India?)

[seharness]

Dan Thies's new book

Test to see if Dan really has his own short cut!

[torka]

He does, but you need to type it this way:

Dan Thies' new book

Without the extra "s" on the end of Thies'

--Torka

[scangilli]

I suggest you to use also these 2 useful operators:
allintext and allinurl

Scangilli

[fitnessguru]

Hi all!
What a thread! Thanks for all the wise words. I'm a newbie but trying to soak up as much of your experiences as possible. Thanks for being so open!

Ray

[qwerty]

Welcome, Ray