18 replies to this topic

[nethy]

Hello people.
two fairly basic Questions
1) What CTR does google use for positioning ads?
I assume that is applies at the keyword level only.
Google says that content network CTR does not affect positioning
The question remains- do they use daily, weekly, all time etc. data to determine position?
anyone know?

Also, if move keywords to a new adgroup or campaign will the CTR reset?

2)Who wants to specutate?
What is the order of importance of the factors affecting keyword qulaity scores (and minimum bids}?
The (as far as i know) factors are:
CTR
ad 2 keyword relevence
ad 2 landing page relevence
keyword to landing page relevence
google's mood

I have heard that CTR is notreally important here but in my experience it is crucial.
Also I have a sneaking suspicion that quality score is determined at a level higher then keyword level possibly at campaign level.

Edited by nethy, 05 June 2007 - 09:59 PM.

[Jbrookins]

1 - Keyword CTR.

1B - If you move your keywords, Google continues to consider that keyword's previous history. HOWEVER, it also will weight in an expected performance of the new adgroup/ad/landing page, which can be a good or bad thing depending on your previous performance.

2 - According to Google, the things taken into account for position are Max CPC, CTR, Keyword to Ad copy relevance, & Keyword to Search relevance.
When you're talking minimum CPC: it's CTR, Keyword to Landing Page, and Keyword to Ad. I think weighted in that order.

[nethy]

thanks Jbrookins
Yes,I meant minimum CTR (the quality score component anyway)
Its just that I have campaign with a bad history
the new adgroups start with a minimum bid of 45c (uncometative market) and an okor poor quality scoreeven though all relevevence factors are great.

[Jbrookins]

Typically, if I'm dealing with a really bad history and I have a bunch of fresh changes that don't seem to be being given the shot they deserve, I shut down the account and start over fresh. This is a last resort kind of thing though as it's a bit of work.

Are you sure the relevance factors are great? Your keywords match up well with your landing pages? Your ad groups are broken down enough to allow for specific ad copy and the most relevant landing pages? Are you using any javascript, SSIs, frames or other odd configurations that may be inhibiting the search engines from properly analyzing the page?

[nethy]

I am reviving the campaign so I broke up adgroups to very specific phrase groups (getting less than a thousand impressions a day each) I even went and wrote new pages (very basic html content sitting in an ecommerce template) specifically for landing (so the keyword is almost always in the title, description and heading) each adgroup.

I still have a minimum bid of 30c-40c for keywords that have a bad history. Not many competetiors either, these clicks should be cheap as chips.

Also, I still think that my historic CTR is keeping keywords from floating.
the new CTR is often 3-6X higher but the history is quite long. That is why I am wodering when the new CTR will kick in. Do I have to wait for my all time average to go up?

[nethy]

Another thing
I actually went backand looked at some of my adgorups and I find that for about 1/4 of them Im getting 1st/2nd positions at my minimum bid. I don't even want to be on top. I don't see any advantage if there are less then 3 competitors on the page.

[jehochman]

If you have an account that has a bad history, you may find it more profitable to close that account and start a new one. Your quality score can get worse than the default one they assign to new accounts.

Which CTR do they use? Whichever one they want! My understanding is that Google AdWords weighs recent history more heavily. What you've been doing in the last three months seems to have a strong impact.

[nethy]

Thanks guys,
I bit the bullet and started the account from scratch.

The adgroups are razor sharp.
What I would normally put in 5 adgroups I put in 25.
They are still being way more stingy with quality scores then is normal (I run several other accounts)

However some strange stuff remains
A few keywords have shockingly bad quality scores with the keywords in the ad title & page title.
my brand name (also the domain name) keywords have minimum bids of $1+
I don't have popups or anything offensive to google.
For some reason the bounce rate for the homepage is quite high.
Could they possibly be monitoring bounce rate?!!
They have been talking about 'user experience' in the scraps of information they give us poor 'partners'. (i call them the google cryptics).

[nethy]

BTW:
CTR scores are a keyword level only thing?
Does adgroupor campaign CTR matter?

[jehochman]

If you were Google and you saw a user click one of your ads, and then come right back and choose another ad, what would you think? My assumption is that Google uses all available information to maximize their own profitability. More importantly, why are people bouncing from your site? Can you get somebody to look at it from the customer's point of view--from search box to conversion--to see what's the disconnect?

[must]

nethy did you move keywords to another adgroup or to another campaign (before you started another account, i mean)?

[nethy]

nethy did you move keywords to another adgroup or to another campaign (before you started another account, i mean)?

Another adgroup. I was changing at the campaign level before going whole nine yards but there's not much difference in the workload.

[nethy]

More importantly, why are people bouncing from your site?

I am working on the bounce rate. But the bouncers are not coming from sponsored results (I haven't sent any there up to now). We have some poorly placed links and some high organic rankings for some irelevent keywords.

My assumption is that Google uses all available information to maximize their own profitability.

So you think they are measuring bounce rate? Of the site's performance? not the ad performance? That would be a breach of their organic/sponsored chinese wall, wouldn't it?

[ttw]

2 - According to Google, the things taken into account for position are ... Keyword to Ad copy relevance, & Keyword to Search relevance.

Hi:

What specifically do you mean by: Keyword to Search relevance and how is that different from Keyword to Ad copy relevance?

I consider those to be the same.

Rosemary

[Jbrookins]

Hi:

What specifically do you mean by: Keyword to Search relevance and how is that different from Keyword to Ad copy relevance?

I consider those to be the same.

Rosemary

Interestingly enough, they're not. Relevance is a rather large subject that a lot of people completely misunderstand.

Keyword to ad copy relevance is a comparison of how the bid upon keyword or phrase matches up to the ad copy. Does your ad copy contain the keywords bid upon? ie keyphrase "Purple Elephants" with an ad "Purple Elephants on sale now" vs "Colored Animals on sale now".

Keyword to search relevance is how the bid upon keyword matches up to the actual search. It's important to note that what the user types in may not necessarily be what you are bidding upon. Things like match types and competitors' terms are taken into account when competing for place. This is phrase matched "Purple Elephants" vs broad matched "Elephants" on the search "Giant Purple Elephants".

In essence, KtAC relevance relies entirely upon your ability to organize your campaigns and write appropriate ad copy, while KtS relevance relies entirely on you anticipating the user and matching up as closely as possible with their syntax. The first is something completely under your control; the second, not so much.

Does that make sense?