39 replies to this topic

[McFox]

Please forgive my ignorance here, but what difference, if any, does PageRank (PR) make to organic search results?

I am asking from my own, limited experience. The reason I ask is because for some (many) search terms, I can land a page with a PR of 4, above that of websites from large corporations with numerous inbound links (on Google).

I used to think it was pure fluke, and of course it may be, but I have done the same thing time and again.

Anyone? (Please be gentle with me )

McFox

[SearchRank]

PR matters but only a small percentage of the overall "big" picture. As a matter of fact, if my memory serves me correctly, Google says PR is only one out of over 100 things that are factored into their algorithm.

[McFox]

So energies spent striving for PageRank would be better spent on content perhaps?

McFox

[qwerty]

I'd say content is your #1. Spend the most time building that. Number 2, at least for me (unless you've got crummy code that needs to be fixed), is links from relevant sites, which are going to come your way if you take care of number 1, but it can't hurt to actively seek them out. And with them comes higher PR, which certainly can't hurt.

[SearchRank]

So energies spent striving for PageRank would be better spent on content perhaps?

Absolutely correct!

[Grumpus]

Some of the energies spent on gaining PR may be better spent on content, but PR still has lots of impact in several areas.

When you do a search at Google, it doesn't all of the sudden start sorting all the billions of pages to give you good results. The first step is to generate a smaller set of documents upon which all of the sorting and ranking factors are then applied to. It does this by checking certain "inherent factors" on a page (i.e. Factors that aren't directly compared to another page or set of pages - it's just stuff that the page "has" or "doesn't have" in respects to that term.)

Obviously, the first of these is "does the page have the words on it?" (More recently, though, it'll also check and see if the words are used to link to it, as well). There are a few quantative values in here, as well such as keyword density and other things, and there are also several more boolean (true/false) factors, too - but let me skip right to PageRank.

PageRank (along with the other quantative elements in play here) is used here to take this set of pages that meet the criteria and sort them in such a way that Google can trim down this set of pages to 1000 or less. (If you notice, there may be 4 million results for a term, but you can only ever see the first 1000 - because that's all that's ever sorted).

So, here we can see that PR is very important as it can make a huge difference in whether your page is number 800 in this set of 1000 or the 1025th (in which case, it's not going to appear in the results at all).

Then, once this set of 1000 pages is generated, it goes on to the compartive math part of the algo.

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PR is also important on larger sites. The higher your mean PR (i.e. the average PR on your site) the deeper Googlebot is going to crawl it. As soon as you have a large site, PR's critical to getting well and widely represented.

And, of course, there are some other things that PR is important for.

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In all reality, PR is really nothing more than a tiebreaker. If you are a sports fan, you'll know that your "division record" (PR in this analogy) can be very important - especially if you are in a competitive division with a lot of great overall records in it. The more competive the division, the more important it is to have a good division record.

Don't give up on efforts to get a good PR. True, many people put far too much energy into this (you DO still need a good overall record for the tiebreaker to even come into play), but ignoring it or not dedicating enough energy to it can be just as deadly.

G.

[OldWelshGuy]

I would say (sticking my neck out) that the most important factor appears to be the relationship between the title, the content and the search phrase. Links are the next most important.

PR build up itself as time goes by, and more people link to you, and the ODP stuff gets syndicated giving you yet more links etc.

As grumpus indicated, if it gets to a split decision, then it goes to PR lol

[Jill]

PageRank is something that every site gets naturally (assuming it's a good site).

You should certainly work at ways to increase links pointing to your site, but not as the ultimate goal of building PageRank.

Certainly, high PageRank sites have it easier in the rankings, than low, but that's because high PR sites are good sites...that's why they have high PR!

Jill

[McFox]

So PageRank really doesn't count for that much in the grand scheme of things, except when you get into the realms of huge sites or very tight competitive niches where it could mean the difference between an organic listing place or two?

Hopefully, I have picked you guys up correctly.

I think I will just stick to doing what I have been doing, based mostly of course, on what I have learned from many of you guys who post here, and not bother about PageRank.

I will stick to content, as I have been trying to do and which has worked so far, and save PageRank for some time in the future if I ever need to consider it more closely.

Cheers

McFox

[OldWelshGuy]

< Sporting analogy>

If you start a new team up and focus on attracting the supporters, at the cost of the performance on the field then you are doomed to failure.

If however you let the world know you exist, then concentrate on winning games, the fans will start coming to, and telling others about your team.

The better you get, the more your fan base grows, the more the fan base grows, the better the income, the better the income the better you can make your team. An upwardly increasing road of success built on success.

Thats my take on page rank, essential for long term success as it is based on a long term factor of link popularity, all these links also being high quality for visitor reasons not just PR.

[Scottie]

Nice analogy!

[peter_d]

To see how important PageRank is, offer a link from a PR 8 site to a group of seos and see how many turn it down.

[Jill]

I'd turn it down if it was from a really nasty site, or whatever...

[projectphp]

To see how important PageRank is, offer a link from a PR 8 site to a group of seos and see how many turn it down.

LOL. "How important is PR" could also be answered a number of different ways. "How important is PR do search X". "How important is PageRank as a marketing tool for Google". "How important is PR to me if I sell links...err sponsorship... on my site".

Each has a different answer, each has a different perspective.

For an individual page, the answer is that PageRank is important, but no more important than many other issues (like using teh right words).

As a quick lisyt, PageRank helps:
1) Rankings on all SERPs, but on competitive SERPs the most (e.g. news, car, mortgage etc).
2) Frequency and depth of Google indexing
3) Google market their site better
4) Site owners sell links for more
5) Others profit, by charging higher prices for a service of dubious value (link purchases, exchanges etc)
6) Getting people all worked up. "My PR went from 6 to 5, why does Google hate me"? Ignore this.

PageRank is great, the more the better. Some people are of the "it is not right to chase PageRank" school, but there is nothiung inherent wrong with doing so. That said, what emphasis you personally place on chasing PageRank, and what methods you subsequently use, is dependant upon what you feel is more rewarding, and indeed your own personal strategy mix. For small sites, it may be vital to get a few extra links, butfor big sites (e.g. CNN) it is totally irrelevant. Some sites will simply need more PageRank to do better, others need better content. On-page optimisation is always the easiest form (you have direct control), but that doesn't mean it is the best or only form.

So, don't discount PageRank. IMHO it is more than just a tie-breaker, but it will never replace entirely on-page SEO. Just don't obsess about it, there are far more important issues (like whether Australia get a bonus point in teh One Day international against Zimbabwe, what I have for dinner tonight etc etc).

[peter_d]

I'd turn it down if it was from a really nasty site, or whatever...

What happened to "but that's because high PR sites are good sites...that's why they have high PR"?

McFox, PR is part of the mix. You don't need it in much the same way as you don't need title tags, but you'd be foolish to ignore PR entirely. In competitive keyword areas, it is essential.