13 replies to this topic

[Phil]

This is my first post, I hope you can help.
My site ranks well in Alta Vista (#1) and Google (#5) for my highest searched KW. However in MSN I've gone from #15 to not showing up at all. What bothers me the most is that I have paid for my inclusion with INK, and once Looksmart is dropped from MSN, I will not have a listing. I bought my inclusion with Position Tech and they insist I am listed by showing me a "original URL" listing, but I can't find my site with any other search. Click rates have dropped to zero with INK as well.
Has anyone ever heard of similar problems?

[SearchRank]

Welcome, Phil!

Are you sure your listing on MSN was not coming from Looksmart? I have heard that they have been phasing those out and may have dropped using Looksmart all together by now. Another factor that you may consider is that MSN may not have the most recent update of the Inktomi index.

What you may do after you have 10 posts on this forum is request a site review because without actually looking at your site, it is difficult to give an exact answer to your inquiry.

[Jill]

Welcome, Phil!

Paying for inclusion has nothing to do with where you'll rank in Ink. Make sure you're not doing anything against their guidelines, not using a doorway/gateway page, and that your page really is optimized well for it's specific keyword phrases.

Jill

[Phil]

Thanks for responding... BTW GREAT FORUM... so much info available!

The Looksmart listing on MSN comes up about #8 in Web Directory listings. As far as basic web listings which I assume come frome Inktomi, no listing for my web site shows up. If Looksmart listings are to be dropped soon from MSN, and also Yahoo may start using INK soon... I am looking to get noticed in INK listings. It seems my site has dropped out in the last few months, yet the work I have done in optomizing my site has raised my rankings in Google and Alta Vista. To me it makes no sense that rankings rise on one SE yet drop in another..... Am I alone?

[SearchRank]

I have seen pages drop form one engine and not in others possibly because the crawler couldn't reach the pages to re-visit them but then usually see those pages appear again a month or so later. Have your pages dropped completely out of the index or are they just not showing well?

If they are still included in the index, how do your rank at HotBot which also uses Inktomi? I have seen MSN Inktomi listings differ from HotBot and IMO HotBot is a better place to really see how optimization works for Inktomi.

BTW just noticed you are in Sedona. Good to see another fellow Arizonian here!

[Phil]

Hotbot has the exact same results as MSN. When I search using my domainname.com some secondary pages show up but not the home page I used for my paid inclusion. I renewed the inclusion in Sep. and the site dropped a few months later. Position Tech just tells me to review the SEO manual they have, but it seems outdated. I am very confident my site is well optimized in regards to other sites in my business. Any thoughts on why Inktomi may drop rankings on a paid inclusion site? I realize payment does not gaurentee placement, but there are only 30 or so businesses in the same listings. At this point I would be happy with #30.

[MakeMeTop]

It sounds awfully like you have triggered an INK penalty. Just because you rank well on other search engines does not mean that INK will always like what you have done. Ask PT if they can find out if you have triggered one. They may be able to tell you - but they won't be able to tell you why.

Remember, all PT do is make sure you are included. It is INK who decides where or if you rank in the listings.

[OldWelshGuy]

Hi Phil,
getting the balance right between Ink and google is harder now that ever. Ink loves H tags, Google appears to scrutinise these with a fine tooth comb etc.

As MMT says maybe you have upstet the INK gods, hopefully you can sort this out soon ready for if/when Yahoo use Ink.

[Phil]

Truefully, I do not think much of MSN/INK as a search engine. Popular and informative sites in my category do not do as well with them as they do in Google/AV. If I do a very specific search, I show up on the first page, so I am indexed, but doubt customers are using these terms. Is there a tool to check the number of KW searches done on MSN? I know overture and Google get 1000-2000 searches on my KW per day. It will certainly let me know if I need to pursue this any further.

Thanks to all....

[SearchRank]

You don't have any "near duplicate" content indexed by Inktomi, do you? We had a client who did and got an Inktomi penalty that still has not been able to be removed.

[Mamdaddy]

Are you paying PT for a service? I am a little biased as to the companies who provide these services, but it's the rule of thumb in this case: If you are paying a company to do a service, it is good customer service to find out why it's not working according to the cusomters desires. It could be something simple, and it could be something Major-that can be fixed if you know what the problem is. I would call PT and ask for a little customer service.

[MakeMeTop]

I think you will find PositionTech's customer service is second to none and is consistently praised by the majority of their users.

Let me re-emphasise - their responsibility is accepting your URL and ensuring it is added to Inktomi's paid crawl cycle for the duration of the agreement. They do not, will not and have never stated that they will do anything to help your page rank better apart from pointing you to the Inktomi editorial guidelines. They are not Inktomi and have no control over rankings.

They do, however, communicate with INK and are usually quite helpful in determining if you have triggered a penalty - but it is up to you to overcome that. Not them. Inktomi will not tell them what you did to trigger a penalty - so they won't be able to tell you!

Inktomi is becoming much tougher on PFI now as all PFI sites are liable to receive a human review to ensure they meet editorial guidelines. Whole networks of sites are being booted and INK is getting pretty aggressive with cross-linked related sites which have similar content. Something Google still seems to reward!

[Phil]

Yes, PT has been very helpful and has responded to all of my e-mails very quickly. I have changed things according to their suggestions, but have yet to see any results...They tell me to wait a few refreshes and we'll see what happens. But you are correct about their service.

Phil

[Greystar]

With PT, Trellian (or any of the PI resellers) you are always getting their best guess, but face it, it's likely to be far closer to the mark than ours!!

If a search for mydomain.co.uk/mypage shows the PFi page, then the inclusion is working... although some of the indexing times (especially just after the pages are added) can be really long... I've had pages take over a week to appear in ATW after FAST submissions, and lots of Ink pages that don't get hit every 48 hours.. twice a week for some is average!