43 replies to this topic

[market seeker]

As a webmaster, I'm no newbie to optimizing web pages for the search engines, but keyword research (and designing a website around a keyword-marketing-strategy) I AM new to (somewhat)... but really want to get this down!!

I'm just curious as to how you have optimized a web page without doing keyword research.

[bwelford]

If you want to have a free tool that seems to work well for me, I would suggest you try Even Better Keywords. This can be found at
http://www.searchguild.com/utils.html

Barry Welford

[market seeker]

If I read it right, that program only quieries alltheweb which only get a small % of searches compared to google and others.

When you use that utility is it safe to say that I could increase the amount of searches web wide by multiplying. I don't know what % of searches alltheweb gets accross the web. Lets say it's 10%, could I multiply the searches in the "the best keywords" by ten? and would that be fairly accurate?

[bwelford]

Market Seeker, You got it right. AllTheWeb (Fast) has an even lower percentage of the search engine market than that. However it does have a fairly large database of web pages. I wouldn't use it at all for estimating the amount of traffic. However it can be used in a comparative sense to see how popular different keywords or key phrases are, relative to each other.

As a one-time statistician, I question the validity of any of the approaches in giving you a representative view of what is going on in the total search engine market. Optimizing for keywords is a mixture of art and science. It is also important to look at your direct competition and see what keywords they are using. In the end, I believe some creativity will make you the real winner.

Barry Welford

[compar]

I'm just curious as to how you have optimized a web page without doing keyword research.

It all depends what you mean by Keyword Research.

Long before WordTracker and other tools became available people still brainstormed and entered a variety of keywords in search engines to see if they brought up relevant pages. People also looked at the meta tags and content of competitor's web sites. I call this keyword discussion, investigation and selection even if you it doesn't qualify as research.

I can't speak for Lynne, but I'm sure she was doing this or else there was nothing to optimize for. I think by "research" she is probably talking about using specific tools.

[LauraB]

Has anyone tried Good Keywords yet? It allows you to try your words at Oveture, Oveture UK, Lycos, Teoma and others. Also has a link popularity feature.

It is a free download. Unfortunately I have not played with it yet... anybody else?

[compar]

Has anyone tried Good Keywords yet? It allows you to try your words at Oveture, Oveture UK, Lycos, Teoma and others. Also has a link popularity feature.

It is a free download. Unfortunately I have not played with it yet... anybody else?

Can you posts the link or the URL for us?

[incrediblehelp]

I find Wordtracker should be used in tandem with Overture keyword tool, checking the competitions website and meta tags, log analysis and using plain common sense to know what keywords to target for your industry. I also feel the KEI analysis is way off, so I just use the Database Count numbers for each keyword as a "guideline" to know which are more popular. Wordtracker is not meant to be a bible of what keywords to target in an SEO campaign, but more of an way to brainstorm possible new keywords with the Keyword Universe (Lateral Search) and compiling lists of keywords with the Popular Keywords Database easily.

I still find myself adding keywords to my list that contain the words "buy keyword, cheap keyword, discount keyword, keyword online, order keyword" all the time that never show up in Wordtracker
I still find myself adding keywords to my list that contain the words "buy keyword, cheap keyword, discount keyword, keyword online, order keyword" all the time that never show up in Wordtraker

[incrediblehelp]

I have tried GoodKeywords and it seems the only function that works properly with accurate numbers is the Oveture tools.

[incrediblehelp]

bwelford,

Where does SearchGuild gets its search data (Searches) from? A real engine?

[Vertster]

The other problem I have had with AdWord is despite the fact that they claim you can be getting click throughs in 15 minutes when I have added additional keywords to a campaign it has taken 2 or 3 days before I started getting any exposure on these words.

This seems to be quite variable. I have seen ads go live nearly immediately, and I have seen them take some time. Usually it seems to take an hour or two. I think it really depends on how busy the system is. Also, sometimes it takes a day or two for your searches to show up on the syndicated sites- this seems especially true on Overture though...

Edited by Vertster, 13 August 2003 - 11:14 PM.

[Sharon & Roy]

This Is A Great Discussion About Keyword Research (As Most Are) ::: Gauging Keyword Popularity

I also feel the KEI analysis is way off, so I just use the Database Count numbers for each keyword as a "guideline" to know which are more popular.

Hi Forum-Mates,

Okay, here is a food for thought type question for those of you who have a good idea of what constitutes a "POPULAR Keyword Phrase" in the Google database.

Would you say that a Keyword Phrase that generates around 600,000 Web Pages in the SERP (Search Engine Results Pages) is ...


1.) In the bottom 5% of the least popular.

2.) Not really popular.

3.) A little below average in popularity.

4.) Average in popularity.

5.) A little above average in popularity.

6.) Really popular.

7.) In the top 5% of the most popular.


Then, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most difficult and 1 being the easiest ... How difficult would you say it would be to acquire a #1 ranking with a 100 page Website for a keyword phase that has 600,000 other Web Pages competing for that term?

We'd appreciate your dialog, experiences and feedback!

Your Friends,

Sharon & Roy

[Mel]

HI S & R
Not sure what you mean when you say popular, and again I am not sure there are keyword phrases in the Google database, but the number of pages that google returns for a particular query is not of much interest to me, since:

1. There is really no correlation that I know of between the number of pages returned and the number of people searching on that search term.

2. I am only interested in ten competitors, those on the first page.

[compar]

Hi Forum-Mates,

Would you say that a Keyword Phrase that generates around 600,000 Web Pages in the SERP (Search Engine Results Pages) is ...


1.) In the bottom 5% of the least popular.

2.) Not really popular.

3.) A little below average in popularity.

4.) Average in popularity.

5.) A little above average in popularity.

6.) Really popular.

7.) In the top 5% of the most popular.

Sharon & Roy,

It seems to me your list of options is incomplete. You left out:

8.) All of the above.

[Ron Carnell]

I agree with Mel on both counts. SERPs don't determine popularity at all, searchers do. Nor do they even determine competitors. YOU do that when you set your goals.