27 replies to this topic

[qwerty]

Back when I was desperate for clients, a friend of mine recommended me to a friend of his. We had a couple of meetings in his office and they decided to take me on. I gave them a huge discount because (1) I was desperate and (2) the guy is a friend of a friend.

So far, we haven't done anything with the project. When we've spoken, the client has told me that they'll let me know when they're ready to start. At this point, I'm too busy to deal with them, so if I hear from them in the next couple of months I'm going to have to tell them to either wait or find someone else.

We don't have a contract, but I'm not going to change what I told them I'd charge. However, I'm certainly not going to push aside clients who are paying me my going rate just to do these people a favor.

[SearchRank]

Back in 97 I picked up one of our first clients who was in the booth next to me at a trade show. At that time I actually sold websites for a web design company who then developed them. I made 35% commission on the site.

Therefore the guy next to me knew I was just starting out so I offered to give him something like 25 - 30% discount and secured him as client while making very little on the project.

He remained a client up to 2003 but the problem is that he always had that mentality of "give me a discount." I did alot of free web updates for him because I hosted his site but never could really make any "real" good money off the guy.

He finally found some other guy who is just starting out now to re-design his site, probably for next to nothing so that guy could get his start. So he left us and went to this guy. Poor sucker probably doesn't even realize that he has picked up a guy who is always going to want that "discount rate" even later on when and if this new web design guy grows his client base and becomes a stable and profitable company.

Bottom line is if you lower your pricing or give free or discounted services to anyone, they will always have that mentality so its not a good thing to do unless you are just trying to get your feet wet or something like that.

[OldWelshGuy]

When someone asks for a discount without offering a deal, eg " I tell you what, A friend of mine is looking for the same work I am after, I will give you his details and you give me a deal" I always say, no problem, give him a call right now, and then tell him what its about, and pass him onto me.

I speak to the guy and he says yeh lets set a date and get together, the original guy gets a deal, as well he should, THAT is business.

When they say, whats your best price, I say you got it, they say cmon how about £XXXX I say " so that is what you want to pay right?" OK then, lets have a look at what we can leave out of the work, fourth or fifth page ok, or maybe we could skim a bit more off, and I will get you to page 10 that ok? we got a deal?

In selling, if you drop your price because the customer has done something for you then thats business, if you drop it Just to get the deal, then thats charity, and charity to a non worthy cause.

When i first started off selling websites I REALLY wanted and needed the work, but I would never price crumble, (well not that the customer knew) I would say something like, OK mr xxx the only way I can drop the price is if you can get some of the workload off me. Can you do xxxxx phone around some friends ask them xxxx search the web and find me your 10 favourite websites and then write up why you like them. All of this will save me time and you money £xxx in fact.

90% of the time what they had done went right in the bin, but the customer never knew that. As far as he was concerned I dropped the price because HE did the work. When it came to more work, they tended not to want a discount the second time, as it was too much work for them lol

[meta]

That's clever.

It's very hard negotiating services sales. You need to be paid for your time, straight discounting is rarely worthwhile. You can be creative in how you structure your offerings. Some clients have something of real value to offer; for example, we sometimes offer a discount on a new service for a prestigious client who is willing to work with us seriously on publicity.

For less established clients who need publicity, we position the same sort of cooperation as value added for them, and therefore a reason why it is worth paying our prices.

[Steve Sardell]

Happy New Year Everyone!

I'm here to vent.  So, here's my story:

Back in DEC I got a call from a small business owner (one-man show) who was frustrated with his recent "drop" in rankings in Google.  Naturally, I asked if he had employed SEO services to begin with.  His answer was yes, that he had the company that host his site do optimization on his "META" tags and for a good while his site ranked well but fell off and his traffic stopped.  He said that his SEO/Webhost told him that happend because of Googles recent changes.

BTW--I immediately saw a red flag!  Primarily because I believe that is not a response an ethical SEO would provide.

I am probably a bit contrarian to most here. I not disagree about walking away from the job for, if one is not enthused about a project, it is very difficult to do a great job. Mayra is not enthused and should not accept it. But I am not in aggreement with the idea of if I can not do the whole thing then I do not want to do anything. Then again I am not a generalist. The walking away is a personal choice. Working as team is a personal choice. Just as pricing is a personal choice. My rates are very high, but it is my choice. Are they cast in stone; no. Do I barter; yes. Do I adjust rates to meet my market; yes. Have I done performance based rates, yes. Do I work within a team frame work; yes. Do I accept all projects; no.

However, the point of my post in not whether one should walk away from the job, but rather. The red flag bit. . The resonse in question is one I believe most SEOs had used during the post Florida crash. I know I certainly did, and I am not technically a SEO. I also know the respose was typical on many fora. Some of my clients were in effect more than others and in December fell off the map. Fortunately, they have returned to very respected rankings. What did we do when they fell? Absolutely nothing more than consoling them. We told them to be patient We simply continued with the busuness as usual-we worked on their linking-we worked on their newslettes-we continued with their ppc-we did not change tags-we did not change copy.

I do not see where the SEOs remarks should have a set a red flag. We are getting the remark third hand. It could have been something like"Don't worry about your rankings today. Google is going through some major changes and all the results seem to be in a flux. When we get a better understanding of what is happening if adjustments are needed we will make them. Hopefully it is just this Florida thing"

Now the client is more than likely simply going to remember the "just this Florida thing," but to set off a red flag the SEO did not do a good job NIMHO. BTB it is not one of my clients as we do linking, and, more than often, after the initial SEO has finished.

As usual just my opinion.

[smc_online]

Why should you discount your pricing for him? Do you know him? Is he family? He wants a cheap back rub but what can he do for you in return?

These are all very good points! In fact, I don't even know this guy. It's just not worth it to me.

By the way, I did call him back and told him to find someone else to do it.

I've made the mistake twice and I don't intend to do it again. My pro-bono days are over!

[smc_online]

BTB it is not one of my clients as we do linking, ...

That's my point!

How many SEOs do you know that limit their services to one part of the process?
This guy said that his host/seo company only works on optimizing meta tags.

My point of view is not naive but one of discern.

[Steve Sardell]

Greetings M,

The majority of small firms I know only do partial SEO a/o SEM. The reason: it is becoming such a broad and refined area it is difficult to find a firm excelling in all the areas. On this board, IMHO, you will find more specialists than generalists. That is not to say they can not or are unable to do all the items required. Since it may not be the most productive time usage a SEO firm may not want to under take link building. Another instance, a small firm may not have the best web page copywriter on the staff, nor may they have the best design team. However, they should have contacts with the copywriter, the link builder, and the design team.Then when the situation arises they will sub the work. Granted there are some firms which are all encompassing and are quite good at it. Then when they are that good rarely will they take on a small business to do SEO.

As usual just my opinion.

[smc_online]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Steve.

[Steve Sardell]

Hi Mayra,

Anytime! I am always willing to share my business thoughts and opinions. Not that they are always correct; but they are my thoughts, and , more than likely, should be treated with a grain of salt.

[smc_online]

We can all use a healthy doze of "salt" from time to time to keep us fresh and alert. Specially those of us that work from a home office!

That is the reason I am compelled to throw out my thoughs and 2 cents on this forum...I know that here I will get honest and balanced feedback.

[sanity]

He remained a client up to 2003 but the problem is that he always had that mentality of "give me a discount." I did alot of free web updates for him because I hosted his site but never could really make any "real" good money off the guy.

From my experiences if you offer a discount at the start of your relationship the client generally doesn't see it as a discount but as your regular rate. And it's almost impossible to get them to accept higher rates later.

It seems to me in smc_online's case the decision was made for her - the prospective client wasn't prepared to pay the asking price. If I don't want to pay the full $29.00 that the bottle of red costs I ain't walking out of the shop with it.

Edited by sanity, 21 January 2004 - 12:53 AM.

[smc_online]

You got that right, Sanity!