15 replies to this topic

[fromtherooftops]

I have an ecommerce site that I've been trying to optimize for 9 months or so. It hangs OK, but isn't always on the first page. We do have 5-10 competitors in our field who beat us often. These are not really companies that seem to know anything about optimization, and it's frustrating to see them beating us - especially since their user value is really minimal. Some have an age advantage, some have more backlinks (but aren't campaigning for them), some seem to have more keyword density (because their product pages are huge).

There are a few things that I'm focused on, and I wanted to get your opinion. I want to see if I can aim towards beating these guys with any of these ideas:

1. The crawl rate is low. My average crawled pages are 112. We have thousands of pages. We don't have a lot of quality backlinks (we have backlinks, yes, but none that Google seems to value based on the fact that they don't return them in a link: search). Is this what's causing the problem? I'm assuming a slow crawl rate may mean that google doesn't value our site as much.

2. Our PR is a 4. Despite our large growth in traffic, it hasn't raised. It actually dropped a point when I first started optimizing. I know it's not good to be obsessed with PR, but should I be fighting for a 5 in this case?

3. Our domain name does not have THE keyword for our industry, like most of our competitors do. Would it make sense to buy a new domain name and start getting that out there?

4. For my situation, when should I be worried about over-optimization? I think I'm balancing it correctly now. I'm creating a good inner-linking structure, good landing pages, good 'new product' features, and smart keyword research.

5. I don't have the most incredible html / css skills, but the site appears well on each browser. I always hear that search engines are able to read all kinds of code effectively - even if it's full of tables and no doctype - and that exclusively using CSS for better SEO is a myth. Is this true?

[jehochman]

exclusively using CSS for better SEO is a myth

Yes, myth.

should I be fighting for a 5 in this case

Toolbar PR is good for willy-waving and not much else. (Hat tip to Chris.)

Would it make sense to buy a new domain name and start getting that out there

That depends on whether you can justify starting a second site that targets a different niche (initially). There's no quick answer to this question. Don't shoot your existing site by changing the domain name.

should I be worried about over-optimization

That depends on what you've done. The biggest danger in over optimization is that you'll trash your conversion effectiveness in the quest for rankings.

The crawl rate is low

Because the search engines think you aren't important. You need a PR strategy (and maybe a marketing strategy) so you can actually become important. Once you really are important, you'll get the coverage necessary to convince the search engines that you are important. Faking it doesn't work in the long run.

[fromtherooftops]

QUOTE
"Would it make sense to buy a new domain name and start getting that out there"

That depends on whether you can justify starting a second site that targets a different niche (initially). There's no quick answer to this question. Don't shoot your existing site by changing the domain name.

Couldn't I just have this URL point to my current site, then try to feed that domain to the SE's? Some results would show under that domain, other results will show under the existing domain? Or am I mistaken.


QUOTE
"The crawl rate is low"

Because the search engines think you aren't important. You need a PR strategy (and maybe a marketing strategy) so you can actually become important. Once you really are important, you'll get the coverage necessary to convince the search engines that you are important. Faking it doesn't work in the long run.

Is my answer for improving my marketing strategy to keep working on my linking campaign? What could you suggest, generally speaking?

We already sell exclusives, and do get great conversions for that, but Google doesn't notice. I don't suppose they pay any attention to traffic increases through their indexed links.

[chrishirst]

"Would it make sense to buy a new domain name and start getting that out there"

Absolutely NOT Unlees you want to restart from scratch (see [url=http://www.highrankings.com/forum/index.php?showforum=71]aging delay forum[/url] )

Couldn't I just have this URL point to my current site, then try to feed that domain to the SE's? Some results would show under that domain, other results will show under the existing domain? Or am I mistaken

Yes, you are mistaken.
This would actually cause more problems.

"The crawl rate is low"

Don't worry about the crawl rate, it will eventually be crawled as often as the SEs calculate they need to.

Is my answer for improving my marketing strategy to keep working on my linking campaign?

Amongst other things, Yes! Links to you from well crawled pages will help to get your pages crawled deeper and more often.

[torka]

And by "PR" Jonathan is referring to "Public Relations", not "PageRank"

some seem to have more keyword density (because their product pages are huge)

Just had to comment on this point... It's likely not the "keyword density" (which is a bogus measurement, as confirmed by Google's Vanessa Fox), but rather simply the overall depth of content that's helping them.

There is no rule that ecommerce product pages must be short. In fact, in most tests I've seen as well as in my own personal experience, long copy converts better than short. There are guidelines for how to write long copy to make it friendly to skimmers as well as readers, but my experience has been that long copy can convert like gangbusters. If your product descriptions are only a short paragraph or two, it's likely you're not giving your visitors enough information about the benefits of what you offer.

Likewise, you're not giving the search engines much to work with, either. Longer copy gives the search engines more to latch on to, and gives your copywriter more room to include your valuable key phrases and appropriate variations without your descriptions appearing "stuffed." There's a lot to like about those "huge" product pages.

--Torka

[Jill]

Wow, you have bought into pretty much every myth out there! You have some relearning to do, my friend. You're mostly worrying about the wrong things. (That's pretty common though due to all the misinformation out there about SEO.)

We have thousands of pages. We don't have a lot of quality backlinks (we have backlinks, yes, but none that Google seems to value based on the fact that they don't return them in a link: search). Is this what's causing the problem?

You'll want to read our pinned thread in the link building forum which discusses the fact that Google's backward link checker doesn't work and isn't useful for any purpose.

Our PR is a 4. Despite our large growth in traffic, it hasn't raised.

As Scottie made the participants in our High Rankings Search Marketing Seminar repeat over and over again out loud -- PageRank is not a means to an end. You don't go around trying to increase PR, it increases itself when you do other things right.

Our domain name does not have THE keyword for our industry

You don't need it.

Would it make sense to buy a new domain name and start getting that out there?

Absolutely, positively NOT. Don't even think about it.

For my situation, when should I be worried about over-optimization?

When you've over optimized. (i.e., spammed the search engines.)

exclusively using CSS for better SEO is a myth

That one you got right!

[fromtherooftops]

Hi Jill. Thanks for setting me straight. I feel like I just got whipped, but I'm sure I deserved it.

[Jill]

Nah, no reason to feel that way. Like I said, there's so much bad/wrong info out there. A good portion of people believe those things you believe.

[fromtherooftops]

Thanks Jill,

I hang out on this board often. I absorb things here - and elsewhere - like a sponge. I see your answers, and I sort of realize now that I had fallen for myths. I realized that I learned things right the first time - probably here. But sometimes I get so frustrated because I'm doing things right, but I still don't see the growth I expect on my company's sites. I think then I cram for something different and make bad judgments out of desperation.

Hopefully these mistakes will stop with experience. At least I was unsure enough about all this to try posting it here!

[Jill]

Perhaps it's time to put your site up for review in our website review forum?

[fromtherooftops]

I'm a little hesitant only because I'd hate to see that string get spidered and have it show up in a google serp, where a shopper or competitor could see behind the curtain. I don't want to put my abilities (or lack there-of) and personality on the site since I don't own it. I only work for the company. I especially don't want my bosses to see my floundering!

[Latousse]

Some have an age advantage

I my experience age does have an advantage; I noticed things tend to improve over time, even if you don't do too much. The problem is that it takes time and who has the patience to wait...

[Randy]

I'm probably splitting hairs here, but I'm not so sure it's an Age advantage as much as it is a Time advantage. Or to put it another way, I don't think it's an Age of the Domain thing as some others seem to believe.

If they've been worked on consistently, older sites typically have more content. And content that has been tweaked to have a better chance of being just what real users are looking for. Older sites also tend to have a larger set of diverse links pointing at them. It's just something that happens if the older site has quality content. More sites link to them and more high quality sites link to them.

So in my mind it's always been more a function of the amount of Time a site has been up, or more specifically the amount of Time someone has put into building a quality site, than it is a function of how long a domain has been registered. Though the two seem to get mixed up constantly.

[RegDCP]

I'm a little hesitant only because I'd hate to see that string get spidered and have it show up in a google serp, where a shopper or competitor could see behind the curtain. I don't want to put my abilities (or lack there-of) and personality on the site since I don't own it. I only work for the company. I especially don't want my bosses to see my floundering!

I don't think there is much more that can be said without seeing the site.

You can always write the URL as domain-name-with-spaces-no-.com and tell us what spaces to take out so it does not get indexed?
Write the url backwards?

Reg

[DJKay]

I'm probably splitting hairs here, but I'm not so sure it's an Age advantage as much as it is a Time advantage. Or to put it another way, I don't think it's an Age of the Domain thing as some others seem to believe.

If they've been worked on consistently, older sites typically have more content. And content that has been tweaked to have a better chance of being just what real users are looking for. Older sites also tend to have a larger set of diverse links pointing at them. It's just something that happens if the older site has quality content. More sites link to them and more high quality sites link to them.

So in my mind it's always been more a function of the amount of Time a site has been up, or more specifically the amount of Time someone has put into building a quality site, than it is a function of how long a domain has been registered. Though the two seem to get mixed up constantly.

Hi Fromtherooftops,

I think the comment about time is huge. I know I go through my own mini [oh my god--whacked again by a SERPS shuffle] every once in a while. It really does take working on it consistently over time with a smart seo & linking building strategy built into the company's overall marketing efforts.

I am lucky because at my current job, I control the whole ball of wax [All Marketing], not just seo/sem [actually, when I took a day job, after I got out of my online marketing consulting practise--I would not take a pure seo/sem job for this reason]

Jill has said many times, don't freak out, and she is right--although again, I stand before you saying I have had a number of times when I get hung up over the progress of my site. The other thing I have heard and then experienced first hand is that sometimes, the cure will be worse than just leaving it as it it.

Whatever the case, seo & sem are just not as easy as they once were and that is precisely why it really should be intimately linked the company's overall marketing strategy [offline and online].

And finally, help me remember I posted this, because I may need to see a link to it soon, when I go through my cycle of [oh my god--whacked again by a SERPS shuffle]

Hang in there. You can do it.

DJKay