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End Of Results Penalty?


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53 replies to this topic

#16 JamesDean

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 01:27 AM

QUOTE(Jill @ Jan 24 2007, 10:44 PM) View Post
Umm...yeah...like calling people pricks perhaps? Very respectful.
Please feel free to point us to some exceptions. We are ready, eager and waiting.

Well hey why not call him a prick he wants to talk to others that way so I feel its necessary to drop to his level for this one.

The exceptions for this are clear. There are many websites that google has loved for years and clearly play by the rules. If DG says google lets you get by with it then the google gods unleash on you I mean come on. Google wants to be a great search engine so why wait for all these years to unleash the fury. Come on now. Did anyone ever hear of them buying a new data center? They are pushing alot of data, filtering it, combing through the data and you dont think there can not be one mistake. These site owners disapear and come back in the same day or the same week in all data centers. So one minute google thinks your site sucks ass then within the same day or week they love you! Come on now! Authority sites that people visit and love and have quality back links, unique content, been around for years and google thinks they suck ass. Clearly not people! It comes down to all those billions of pages getting pushed daily, links indexed here and there. So thats why your gone here and there.

Oh and has anybody ever heard of the theknot.com
very know wedding planning website
Alexa 3k, page rank 7, over 4000 google backlinks, has been around since 96 and is clearly known as an authority in the wedding business. So has anyone ever heard of them, huh? Clearly there site does not suck ass! Period! SSA dismissed! Now DG groupies pay attention

Edited by JamesDean, 25 January 2007 - 01:45 AM.


#17 Scottie

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 02:48 AM

OK, one more time.

Read Slowly.

DG is not saying every site that is currently not ranking well has a suck ass penalty.

Breathe in, breathe out. Count to 10. It's nothing to get all worked up over.

I do believe it applies to a heck of a lot of sites, and think he's made a great point. Obviously, you take this personally. It's not aimed personally at you or any particular site.

OK?

#18 mcanerin

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 03:01 AM

I'm not sure what your point is in the above diatribe - theknot.com shows up quite well for "wedding planning" on Google. In order to have a point, you'd need to show a site that didn't suck but wasn't showing up.

The fact that a site does not show up is not always due to the fact that it sucks, and I don't think anyone here is saying that. There can be many reasons - robots.txt excluding spiders, DNS/Bogon issues, lack of links, no use of the keyword on the page or in anchor text, etc.

But once you eliminate all of the technical and SEO reasons, then you are left with one of the following choices - Google hasn't got to it yet, Google messed up something or is in an update, the site is spammy or connected to spammers, or it sucks in Googles opinion.

I think that DG's point was that some people refuse to accept that a site can suck, especially their own. They keep looking for every other possible reason, rather than actually improving the quality of their own site. I see this all the time, myself - sometimes a site just plain sucks from an SEO or user standpoint and needs to be fixed.

I think that's pretty straightforward - did I miss something?

Ian

Added: Yeah - what Scottie said ( while I was typing the above).

Ian

#19 JamesDean

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 01:22 PM

QUOTE(mcanerin @ Jan 25 2007, 03:01 AM) View Post
I'm not sure what your point is in the above diatribe - theknot.com shows up quite well for "wedding planning" on Google. In order to have a point, you'd need to show a site that didn't suck but wasn't showing up.

It doesnt necessarily mean that I said it wasnt showing up for wedding planning. It just means that a certain page that this is affecting. Show it should be called "My certain Page sucks ass"

I took advice and Im now breathing in and out and counting to 10 as well.



QUOTE(Scottie @ Jan 25 2007, 02:48 AM) View Post
Obviously, you take this personally. It's not aimed personally at you or any particular site.

Once again I am not taking this personally. I just think that DG as a "Leader in Seo" should offer advice and have some compassion for people that are losing there houses, cars, lifestyles and letting go workers because of this should offer advice and not just say hey your site sucks ass!

#20 Randy

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 05:04 PM

Moral of the story, one which you'll hear around here often...

Never ever ever ever rely on free traffic from the search engines for your livelihood. It's just not smart business.

You should --at a minimum-- have 4 or 5 other channels that are delivering you qualified traffic. If you don't, your business doesn't have a sound foundation or marketing plan.

#21 Scottie

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 05:14 PM

QUOTE(JamesDean @ Jan 25 2007, 01:22 PM) View Post
I just think that DG as a "Leader in Seo" should offer advice and have some compassion for people that are losing there houses, cars, lifestyles and letting go workers because of this should offer advice and not just say hey your site sucks ass!


I have no compassion for people who base their mortgage payments on getting free listings from Google. Sooner or later, not having any real marketing will bite you in the rear.

Free results should always be "extra" and not an entire markeing plan.

We go through this every time Google does a major update and the people who've been skating along get dropped and feel horribly wronged. You don't have a contract with Google, unless you are running AdWords. They don't owe you free marketing or traffic, no matter how much they've "loved" you in the past.

Sorry.

#22 JamesDean

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 05:41 PM

QUOTE(Scottie @ Jan 25 2007, 05:14 PM) View Post
I have no compassion for people who base their mortgage payments on getting free listings from Google. Sooner or later, not having any real marketing will bite you in the rear.
Free results should always be "extra" and not an entire markeing plan.

Well Im sorry but I still have compassion for others. Yeh you are entirely correct you should never base a business on free listings. You should run ppc, article marketing, link bait, be actively involved in forums related to your niche market, targeted advertising wherever you can, email marketing, paid leads, biz blogging and many more for a sound business. But for others who do not recognize that all this is needed for a sound infrastructure hey "I cant help but feel sorry for them sorry!" Because all of the hype around getting free listings in google and thats all some people know get all of this money coming in and dont comprehend that some day it will be gone. appl.gif

#23 qwerty

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 06:19 PM

I pity them too, JD, but it's the kind of thing Scottie's saying that's going to teach them how to do it right.

#24 JamesDean

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jan 25 2007, 06:19 PM) View Post
I pity them too, JD, but it's the kind of thing Scottie's saying that's going to teach them how to do it right.

Yeh I know but you got supposed "Leaders in the Seo Game" like DG that just make a mockery of them man and dont give them any tips but say hey your site sucks ass! And Thats why I was kind of ticked off. I mean come on most of the people who got hit was new b's and new sites who got hit and pretty much just took every other seo's advice and really have no idea of whats going on. Thats why he pissed me off when he said that!

"somewhere along the way, the content ends up being a remash of all the content that has gone before." DG
and here he is involved actively in a forum who has this ad "Link Building Services & Content Creation." huh I wonder why this content has become a remash because your helping to promote it.

"Ads take over content real estate." DG
HMMMM TW seems to do that also. Affiliated with sell this link, let me scrape some content, link building services, text link ads. Huh I thought Google didn't like that but hes helping to promote it. Ok now if it was me and I was an editor in a popular internet marketing forum I wouldnt be saying all this crap and then help promote bull crap on the left, top of each and every page. Let me place it on the top left so I can draw more people in with this bull crap.
Breathing out now

Edited by JamesDean, 25 January 2007 - 07:31 PM.


#25 Jill

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 07:17 PM

QUOTE
Yeh I know but you got supposed "Leaders in the Seo Game" like DG that just make a mockery of them man and dont give them any tips but say hey your site sucks ass!


It's the best thing anyone can ever tell a site owner, assuming it is true. Just because they don't want to hear it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be said.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Deal with it.

Site owners whose sites suck ass, know in their hearts that they suck ass because they took short cuts, only thought about search engines not users, and lots of other things. They all know their sites suck ass, they just hope nobody else (the search engines) will know it.

It's a lot easier to create a piece of site than it is to work hard and create a good one.

Bringing it out into the open, is way more merciful than tip-toeing around the truth. If your site sucks ass, it sucks ass and no amount of candy coating that will make it suck ass any less.

#26 JamesDean

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 07:39 PM

"somewhere along the way, the content ends up being a remash of all the content that has gone before." DG
and here he is involved actively in a forum who has this ad "Link Building Services & Content Creation." huh I wonder why this content has become a remash because your helping to promote it.

"Ads take over content real estate." DG
HMMMM TW seems to do that also. Affiliated with sell this link, let me scrape some content, link building services, text link ads. Huh I thought Google didn't like that but hes helping to promote it. Ok now if it was me and I was an editor in a popular internet marketing forum I wouldnt be saying all this crap and then help promote bull crap on the left, top of each and every page. Let me place it on the top left so I can draw more people in with this bull crap.
Breathing out now

#27 Jill

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 07:43 PM

Threadwatch, definitely does not suck ass.

Having ads, doesn't = ass sucking

Do you understand the difference between having ads on your site, and "ads take over content real estate"?

Apparently, you don't.

#28 JamesDean

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 08:09 PM

Yeh but hes helping promote bull crap sites that put crap in peoples faces. And I know ads doesnt equal ass sucking its when your promoting ass sucking sites is when you suck!

#29 projectphp

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 09:11 PM

QUOTE
And I know ads doesnt equal ass sucking its when your promoting ass sucking sites is when you suck!
So wait, now your argument is that "sucking ass" is something that should e punished or it isn't real? You lost me!

And if TW does suck, don't you think they will one day be found out? IMHO, they don't suck ass, because they have something original and unique. That is the very definition of not sucking ass. Which leads me to...

QUOTE
...somewhere along the way, the content ends up being a remash of all the content that has gone before.

What truly excellent advice! You don't seem to understand it, so let me explain. Many sites say nothing new or original, have nothing new or original. Which site to choose from the multitude of unoriginal, uniteresting sites ona topic is really pot luck.

The cure? Simple: say something new and original, or at the very least interesting.

The only power most people have is to make their own site the best it can be. If more people did that, rather than worrying about what other ppl say or what an SE does today, then they would be a lot better off.

Translation: whatever is wrong with a site's SEO is both one's own fault and something one can fix by making their site better.

I, for one, think that is uplifting, because at least there is something one can do to improve, which sitting around whinging never achieved wink.gif

Edited by projectphp, 25 January 2007 - 10:00 PM.


#30 Scottie

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 09:30 PM

QUOTE(JamesDean @ Jan 25 2007, 05:41 PM) View Post
Because all of the hype around getting free listings in google and thats all some people know get all of this money coming in and dont comprehend that some day it will be gone. appl.gif


Then they've been reading some suck ass advice. We never say that here... you'll never find that in Jill's newsletter or on any of the many sites that the moderators run.

If you don't know better in your heart of hearts, that you shouldn't rely on something you have no control over to pay your bills, then you deserve to be run out of business. If you've followed the "get rich quick and never pay a dime" sales letter spiels, then you've been taken in and haven't used your common sense. (I believe most people DO know better, but prefer to blame big bad G who's still making money.)

I'm sorry it seems harsh to you, but business isn't about feeling sorry for people who expect a free ride.

Instead of hashing it all out again about poor mom and pop who, instead of being thankful for all the free business they've received decide to complain to the world that Google is out to get them, please read the epic thread:

Is Google Wrong to Make Changes that Affect Small Businesses


Here's a little moral from that long thread in case you don't want to read it all (but it's well worth a read):

QUOTE(Scottie @ Nov 20 2005, 06:34 PM) View Post
Google didn't ask people to depend on their results for their income. Have you ever read Thidwick the Big Hearted Moose?

QUOTE
Thidwick was a kind moose who hung out happily, enjoying a good amount of individual freedom, I might add, with a bunch of other moose on Lake Winna-Bango. In the beginning of the story, in the typical Seuss fashion, the moose are lunching and munching on moose-moss one day, when a bug invites himself onto the big-hearted moose's antlers for a free ride. Thidwick is happy to share.

But after the bug takes a seat, a spider jumps on. Then a bird makes a nest, marries the next day, and then tells his wife's uncle, the woodpecker, to come aboard. The uncle calls in a squirrel, saying:

This big-hearted moose runs a public hotel!
Bring your nuts! Bring your wife! Bring your children as well!

The best part, they agree, is that life in Thidwick's antlers is totally free.

Eventually Thidwick has a veritable zoo in his horns--including a fox, a bobcat, a turtle, a big bear and fleas and bees--riding along gratis and demanding their rights. The greedy "guests" are so annoying that the other moose kick Thidwick out of the herd.

When migration to the south shore of Winna-Bango begins, the moochers in Thidwick's horns take over and insist that he has "no right" to move their home. To be fair, they explain, they will vote. Thidwick loses out to the majority, and the poor moose is left starving and freezing.

When Thidwick finds himself in the crosshairs of some big guns who want his head for the Harvard Club wall, he lopes ever so slowly with 500 pounds of freeloaders on his head, a clear emblem for the weight of the welfare state. But just when it looks like curtains for our hero, we find out that it's the time of year to shed antlers. So Thidwick tosses his horns, full of his "guests," who are then caught by the hunters and stuffed for the wall.

Thidwick had to do what he had to do to survive, and all the hangers-on were most unhappy with him... they would rather have seen him dead than have him mess up the home they had decided create in his antlers.

To tell Google they "have to think of the impact on the sites that depend on them" every time they need to update their index or change ranking factors would certainly kill them as fast as the hunters (translate as "Yahoo and MSN") would have taken down Thidwick. And the freeloaders would still complain! How dare you not send me the customers you used to send me?



Change "hunters" to "spammers and crappy sites" as well as competing search engines and it all fits pretty well.

Google makes changes that improve Google. Their job is not to make sure your business stays afloat. That's your job.




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