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51 replies to this topic

#31 Running Scared

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 12:21 PM

I find it difficult to justify reciprocal links for the sake of reciprocal linking. I do think you can do a lot of damage by doing it (damge to rankings but credibility is probably more important). I simply do not want to recommedn rubbish resources/sites to my visitors

#32 Jill


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Posted 31 July 2003 - 12:51 PM

Nobody should ever recommend a site (link to it) if they don't like it. That's just dumb. Anyone who does it, just because they get a link out of it, is foolish, imo. And anyone who would recommend reciprocal linking whether or not you really recommend the site is nuts. (Not that I've ever actually seen someone recommending that.)

But this is exactly why I try to talk about how linking is not the same as reciprocal linking. A links campaign may or may not consist of some reciprocal links. It's not reciprocal links you're after, just links!

Mostly you want to give your own users a good experience.


#33 cdonnow


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Posted 31 July 2003 - 02:30 PM

My first thought if they are not actively wanting to write articles etc and participate in "being active" to promote their site online would be trying to get them listed in industry specific directories or local online business directories assuming they mention their locality on their site. (oh, run on sentence!)
These types of directories are pretty easy to find. Say that your client is located in "anywhere, usa" and sells pet food . Do a search for directories that list "businesses located in anywhere" or do a search for "list your pet food site" or list your pet food url or list your "anywhere usa" site.

#34 denver


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Posted 31 July 2003 - 08:59 PM


I'm interested in your thoughts on PR (that's Press Releases, not PageRank!) and copywriting and Link Building.

There are a lot of magazines online, covering every imaginable industry sector. There are a number of services that will help you to write reasonably effective Press Releases, and submit them on your behalf to lists of Editors of those magazines.

Given that you have a web-site, your PR should contain a link, and if published that link should get spidered and . . . .

But there's a few assumptions in this chain of reasoning:
1. Will the magazine publish your PR online at all? (Toss a coin?)
2. Will the magazine publish your link in the PR? (Probably, in my experience.)
3. Will the spiders find that link? (Who knows? Depends on the site architecture)
4. Will your PR be effective in other ways?

I think that #4 is an important point. I've had good experience with recognised magazines doing product reviews online, resulting in significant traffic and sales spikes.

It seems to me that "Link Building as Marketing" is a key point: it puts Link Building in its proper context as one tactic in an arsenal of inter-related tactics that you combine to form an over-arching strategy.

But the inter-relation is also vital: each tactic you mix into your strategy should compliment and reinforce the others already in play. I believe that strong copy writing (on your site and in your PR) reinforces the effectiveness of the links, good links expose the strength of your copy to a wider audience, and so on.

Very interested in all the discussion so far - you people are great! - but also keen to hear more . . . .

P.S. Jill, will your sites CSS' be spidered? Because if so, I'm going to have to change my sig to point to my own site!

As always: ;)

#35 Debra


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Posted 01 August 2003 - 01:13 AM

Linking, whether it be recipricol, one-way, or promotional has it's place depending on the type of website you have and your over all marketing goals.

There is nothing wrong with recipricol linking if the links add to your content and assist your visitors. I don't advocate recip linking as a hobby, but if a website approached and convinced me that swapping links would prove to be a benefit to my visitors, I'd do it.

Swap the link because it makes sense, not because you're trying to increase your link pop.

I dislike the way people have a tendency to display their links all on one page. These links pages are tedious, have little content and even less value given the way they are displayed.

If you've swapped links with a complimentary site, add that link to the corresponding page within your website. It then becomes a tool for your visitors and adds to your content.

Be sure your partner site does the same for you. Go so far as to suggest where you want your link, it's surrounding text and the hyperlink. Provide precise information, make it easy for them to add.

Make it easier for people to link to you by offering your information on each page of your website....... " we've made it easy for you to link to this page, just cut and paste this URL and text etc.............."

After time, you'll be surprised at the virual nature of this small gesture.

And Running Scared remember - you have control over whom you link to. Your visitors don't want to see links to rubbish ( love that word!) sites either, but I bet they would appreciate links that help inform or educate them while visiting your site. So only add good, informative helpful links.

#36 Debra


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Posted 01 August 2003 - 01:18 AM

Before anyone points out that I spelled recipricol wrong in my post below....

reciprocal -- reciprocal -- reciprocal.


#37 Gary Bagshawe

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:11 AM

Ahahahahaha, start learning html in the United Kingdom and it takes a couple of hours before you can centre (center center center) things. ;)

#38 Alan Perkins

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 04:43 AM

It's not linking, it's marketing  :lol:

I agree.

What is marketing? My short answer: defining a proposition, defining an audience interested in that proposition and making that audience aware of the proposition. That's exactly what linking involves, too.

I see search engine marketing as a form of link building. The "proposition" is defined by the keyword. The "audience" is defined as "searchers who are looking for [keyword]". The marketing objective is to "build" a link from the keyword SERP to the relevant page on your site.

There are at least two ways of doing this:

1) buying advertising
2) being ranked naturally for the word

So, although many people would say that link building is part of search engine marketing, I would say the the other way round is also true: search engine marketing is part of link building. :D

#39 markymark


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Posted 01 August 2003 - 06:16 AM

So, although many people would say that link building is part of search engine marketing, I would say the the other way round is also true: search engine marketing is part of link building.

And I would say that you're being pedantic. :lol: Sorry, couldn't resist. I really must try to be more serious.

#40 Alan Perkins

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 06:38 AM

:lol: Just trying to offer an alternative perspective... it certainly helps me, when selling my services, to simplify what I'm offering to plain language that any marketer can understand:

"I build links to your web pages from web pages whose visitors have qualified themselves as being interested in your proposition".

#41 mcanerin


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Posted 01 August 2003 - 12:25 PM

I do a lot of work for non-profit organisations, some at my special NPO (non profit organisation) fee and sometimes for free, it depends on how much money they have (some non-profit orgs have budgets way bigger than a lot of businesses)

I get a warm fuzzy feeling, which is nice - try it! (I did pro bono work when I was a lawyer, too).

There are other, more material advantages as well. First, non-profits tend to attract affluent people as volunteers, which in turn can get you a lot of contacts for future business. Second, and on topic here, most non-profits can get really, really high PR for their sites without a lot of work, and are happy to provide a link. Unlike businesses, they don't worry as much about "stickyness" or sending someone to a competitor.

There are so many NPO's out there that it's rare to find one that doesn't have some relationship to commercial sites. Don't believe me? How about a fishing industry promotion org for your fresh main lobsters? Or a sleep apnea org for your mattress seller? Literacy society for your bookseller? How about a tourist bureau for a travel site?

In addition, if your client chooses to support a particular NPO like the local womens shelter, (I have a lingerie client that does - breast cancer too) these places usually are happy to provide reciprocal links.

I'll often do free work for an NPO because it helps the client. In one case I charged the full amount, but gave the invoice to the client and they took it as a tax deduction (donation).

One of my NPO clients, a sleep apnea society, has a PR of 6 and boosted my own PR significantly just because of the 'This site optimised and promoted by" link at the bottom of their page. And they wanted to pay me more for increasing their own traffic! (I didn't accept, btw)

Just don't turn it into some sort of machiavellian plot to use the plight of others to your own advantage. The best relationship is one where everyone is happy and no one is taken advantage of. Let them know what you are doing and why, and they usually are happy to accept and help. Ethics Rule!

Just my 2 cents worth.


#42 Alan Perkins

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 12:28 PM

Great post, Ian. :)

#43 netwants


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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:19 AM

G'day Ian you've really got me thinking with your post as I think I could be of great help to NPO's on my "wanted to buy" site as I already have a few ads for donation to Charities where the "offer" is "donation".

Do you think it would be a good idea if I added another category named "Charity Items Required" ( in Australia, New Zealand, and the UK the term "non-profit organization" or NPO is not well known ), or is the word "charity" not well received in the USA ( where 80% of my visitors live ).

Like you, I like helping people, and the NPO's might be happy to link to me once the "Charity" page is up.

What do you think ?


#44 mcanerin


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Posted 02 August 2003 - 04:01 PM

I love your site, Andy!

"Stuff wanted" is always a very small part of the local Buy-and-Sell papers that it's interesting to see a whole site based on it. (Hmmm, I wonder if a "customers wanted" ad would work? LOL )

More to the point, I think it's a great idea! A separate page or section would be good SEO tactic in general anyway, and it's far easier to let people know about stuff if they don't have to go digging around for it. People trust specialists more. Same with specialist sites or pages.

I use "NPO" mainly because I came from a Fortune 100 IT/Marketing background coupled with legal training - in short, I have a hard time NOT speaking in jargon (lawyers even have jargon for the word "jargon" - it's called "term of art" !)

There was also the practical matter that many non-profit organisations don't do "charity" - they are support groups or hobbists or have a common special interest. Heck, at one point most of the web was NPO! I remember sending my list of Canadian websites to Jerry Yang while Yahoo was still a sub-URL on the Stanford servers with no thought other than helping out a fellow directory owner whose site I found very useful. I guess I should have asked for stock options....

In your case, "charity" would no doubt be perfectly plain, and don't worry, it's very common here in North America. Indeed, I'd probably be faster to donate to "charity" than to a "not for profit". Charity means helping people, not for profit is mostly just not commercial. I personally only help NPO's that more closely resemble charities or support groups, under the theory that someone trying to help others is more worthy of help than someone who is just a hobbyist.

Let me know if the charity page works, I might send some clients your way! :thumbup:

Good Luck!


#45 Carthago


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Posted 07 August 2003 - 04:37 AM


I am new to this forum and will try to be part of it because it is looking and discussing in a positive way to and about the ideas of people who do post.

Reading that it is all about getting visitors I not agree at all (and it depends on the kind of site you do put online) because commercial sites needs buyers! In this the exchange of links needs some more in depth information and not the banner with some alt in it. In fact you are loosing some chances if you just stay with this old way of linking to your pages. Again I am not speaking about a website but about webpages. Here is the point Google is making the big difference by weighting every page as a stand alone :aloha:

Looking at the link exchange sites, the banners in all sizes or the more informative links, I would say that you have to market your supposed visitors by putting the right 'instrument' at the right place.

The saying that a picture is telling more than just words is right for visitors but links do help (can help) your popularity for the SE's too. They cannot watch a picture but need information! Text links to the page by using your phrase in the link is what you need now more than ever.

The danger of reciprocal linking is that a 'wrong' site can link to you and damage all your work.

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