22 replies to this topic

[peteark]

I am considering using the services of an SEO company, however there are so many horror stories about

Should I use a company who have a good placement themselves as this is the only real proof they know their stuff?

Thanks

[jehochman]

No. Unless you know what keywords they are targeting, you can't judge their rankings.

Ask some local business owners who is helping them with Internet marketing, and get recommendations. You can also search the SEO Consultants directory, the SEMPO members, or cruise the forums and see who knows their stuff.

You best defense against being ripped off is to learn something yourself. You've come to the right place.

[Michael Martinez]

No. Unless you know what keywords they are targeting, you can't judge their rankings.

Ask some local business owners who is helping them with Internet marketing, and get recommendations. You can also search the SEO Consultants directory, the SEMPO members,...

Or SEOmoz's recommended providers directory (although Rand Fishkin recently invited people to submit themselves so I would say that if he added many such submissions the quality of the listings declined).

However:

... or cruise the forums and see who knows their stuff.

And how on Earth is anyone who needs help with SEO supposed to determine "who knows their stuff"? There are people here at HighRankings who are talking about Toolbar PR -- you know very well their excitement over the latest meaningless PR update ( ) is going to influence yet more people down the line to mention their stupid Toolbar PR values when they ask for help in forums.

...You best defense against being ripped off is to learn something yourself. You've come to the right place.

And I'll agree with you there. But the learning process is not easy because new people don't always see that some folks are stuck in the "that was so yesteryear" zone.

[OldWelshGuy]

Talk to a few companies, and ask them what they think. Then have a think, have a read, and make a decision. Ask them for varifiable clients that you can contact, and see the results on the search engines.

[qwerty]

And how on Earth is anyone who needs help with SEO supposed to determine "who knows their stuff"? There are people here at HighRankings who are talking about Toolbar PR -- you know very well their excitement over the latest meaningless PR update is going to influence yet more people down the line to mention their stupid Toolbar PR values when they ask for help in forums.

I think it would be fair to say that if they cruise around this particular forum it won't take long to see where there is and isn't consensus, who has developed a reputation over time for knowing what they're talking about, etc. The people who post here about how they're foaming at the mouth over a toolbar PR update are usually told in no uncertain terms to calm down and pay attention to something that matters.

[peteark]

Thanks for the replies

I will take on board the comments however I would still like to see their company within the first 3 pages of google for their chosen keywords

[BostonScott]

Or SEOmoz's recommended providers directory (although Rand Fishkin recently invited people to submit themselves so I would say that if he added many such submissions the quality of the listings declined).

I respect Rand and what he does with SEOmoz. If Rand says someone is a good SEO, that holds weight in my eyes because I believe Rand to be an honest person, a good SEO, and someone with sound judgment.

But keep in mind that Rand's perspective (the perspective that informs lists like the top SEO lists) is limited not to the best SEO's on the Internet, but to the best SEO's on the Internet who also happen to be vocal in the community to which Rand is a part. I'm sure there are hundreds of good, reputable SEOs on this forum who are not on that list.

Does the list have value? Yes. But a perception should not be created that the list is definitive. It is nothing more than one person's perspective. That person happens to be both credible and trustworthy, but not definitive:)

[qwerty]

Actually, I don't think Rand ever added me to his list I think I'll live, though.

But speaking of SEO lists....

[Randy]

I'm being a bit facetious here, but the way to find the best SEO's is usually tied to how they advertise themselves and how available they are.

1. Real SEO's never send out the typical spam mail we all receive. If they have to hype their business that much they're either not very informed about Marketing, or they're just lazy.

2. The best SEO's/SEM's usually have a waiting list. So not only do they not solicit business via spam mails, but usually you're going to have to wait for some time to open up in their schedule before they can start on your site.

There are of course exceptions. If you're a Fortune 500 company or someone who has a lot of dollars to spend on SEO --and willing to pay a decent portion up front-- you'll likely get moved to the front of the line. If you run a normal site with a normal budget and happen to contact a really good SEO at the right moment when they have some space in their schedule they may be able to slot you in. But otherwise the best of the best are usually in very high demand and there are only 24 hours in a day, so you may have to wait to get their full attention.

[Jill]

...and there are only 24 hours in a day, so you may have to wait to get their full attention.

Yep! That's why I'm hiring!

[projectphp]

will take on board the comments however I would still like to see their company within the first 3 pages of google for their chosen keywords

I never get that. Ever seen a builder's house? Met a healthy Doctor who didn;t over drink? The quality of service others get often isn't the same as we give ourselves.

Anyone that chases rankings for SEO has too much time on their hands IMHO, or is trying to make a reputation. Nothing wrong with that, but if they are making their reputation, that means they don't have one...

Besides which, why on Earth do you need help if your condition is that they rank in the top 30 for SEO? How hard is it to search for seo and contact all the top 30 results?

Hardly need our help if that is your plan!

[mcanerin]

I know several SEO's who have taken to DE-optimizing their site (and I swore I would never use that word...damn) - including myself.

Why?

The traffic, that's why. It turns out that if you are optimized for a generic term (like SEO, for example) then people with no clue will do searches and contact you. In general, that means you send a lot of time dealing with people who are not serious, or who are phoning everyone to try to get free advice from as many as possible.

Good SEO's know what targetted traffic is, and care about conversions, not rankings. Therefore looking for a good SEO by looking at rankings will not work.

In my case, for example, I currently only take clients via referrals. I've been tempted on more than one occasion to actually take down my site, but I've never actually got the nerve to do it (I spend too much time one it, in the old days). So I ignore my site and hardly ever update it.

That doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing. For that, you should check my clients rankings.

Likewise, what if a company had managed to spam it's way up to the top of a SERP and you found them a couple of days before Google banned them? Does the fact that they are number one that day mean they know what they are doing?

Looking for an SEO the way you are proposing would have made you a prime Traffic Power client.

You want to find out about an SEO, don't search for SEO terms, search for the actual company or person on the net and see what everyone else is saying about them. Who cares what they say about themselves? I've had my content stolen several times by shady SEO's that tried to use it to rank well. If that content helped them rank well, does that mean they are a good choice?

The resume (eg website and rankings) may get a prospective worker in the door, but it's the work and the reputation (clients and community buzz) that really matters. You are looking in the wrong place and will therefore probably find the wrong result.

Ian

PS: that doesn't mean that the sites that rank for "SEO" and other generic terms are bad sites - but if you check you'll find that most of their good clients either come from referrals or from more specific terms, not the generic ones. Almost every time.

[projectphp]

In my case, for example, I currently only take clients via referrals.

Me too, hence why I don't promote my services on forums

The best clients always are from referral, in my personal experience, and the hassles of unidentified contact is something that I find wastes time.

[donp]

DITTO!
I work from referrals only, and even then, I subject the prospective clients to more scrutiny than they do me.

[jehochman]

Oh, I've had some fine clients call out of the blue, and some wingnuts have been referred. It's hard to tell who's going to go insane on the next full moon. Usually I give a client a small starter project and see how it goes. Those who are a good fit can go on monthly retainer, and the rest get a friendly pat on the back and kind words of encouragement.