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Posted 14 December 2006 - 11:43 PM
The kind of thing that bothers me is just what you mentioned - IE makes the div have a one line height while FF gives it a zero height, something I discovered only by trial and error while trying to put in a "buffer" div to get the visual effect I was after. This leaves me with an uncomfortable feeling - what other quirks are lurking out there that I haven't discovered because I am using the wrong version of browser? Even most of the recipes I have come across for creating a "frames like" look using divs talk of exploiting bugs. That sounds iffy at best. What happens when the bug disappears or changes?
Is there some place on the net where IE vs FF (and other browsers for those who care) div quirks are neatly listed? That would make for a far easier life.
An unrelated comment - while no site should be all layout and no content, it is possible to go too far the other way and get in content in a way that is so unattractive that the visitor promply leaves. A fat lot of good design principles do when there are bills to be paid./font]
Posted 15 December 2006 - 03:34 AM
The div height issue with IE has two simple solutions, either specify height:0 or font-size:0px; in the declaration. It should be 0px rather than 0 for the font so that IE does not try to increase the size of the non-existent text should the end user have altered the browser text size. Ensure that you are using a full and valid doctype declaration, preferably without being "snobbish" about XHTML Strict (if you ain't using XML you don't really need it).
My opinion on "hacks" exploiting one bug to workaround another bug is the same. One day one or both of the bugs will be fixed and you're back at square 1. Can we say IE7?
If the content is good and useful and what they are looking for, they will stay. The site being "pretty" won't come into it. Take a look at Jakob Nielsen's It's definitely not a pretty site but it does what it is intended to do.
Now if the design is very pretty but confuses users (as far too many websites do) that's a whole different ball game. As a designer the middle ground is what you need to get to. A reasonable looking site, that doesn't fall apart in other browsers, that gives visitors what they want or a simple way to find it.
Posted 15 December 2006 - 10:24 AM
I must thank you for the UseIt link, Chirsthirst. I found it useful - especially the research reporting the "F" pattern used by viewers of websites. I found it especially pleasing because I have designed by own landing page in precisely that F format - this may be my first attempt at creating a website but I have years of experience tearing out my hair in frustration at utterly unuseable ones.
A comment on the tables issue - OK, I agree they are too easily abused and that there is almost never any need to nest tables. Nevertheless, the argument regarding tables leading to bad code does not sound very valid to me. It is possible - as I am doing - to keep all code manageable by breaking it up into multiple files and using SSI to stitch together the files for delivery. That greatly reduces the risk of error - even with tables.
A question on the SSI front - I am using Abyss (now there is a really great product) server and probably use it as my final
web server too. I am using the extension STM for all files I want it to subject to SSI. Will submitting site/index.stm to Google et al for listing be a problem? i.e does it have to be htm, html or something?
This is perhaps not the most appropriate forum for this question but I'll ask it anyway - I want to put in a table of links/FAQ to additional information at the bottom of each of my web pages. This is not for the "F" readers but for those who get beyond that stage and want comprehensive information at their fingertips (not being able to find this has been my most frequent reason for abandoning a website). A web browser screen has no "bottom". I keep my web pages small - never more than a screenful thus far - and stick in the links/FAQ table in an absolute div positioned at 500 pixels. My thinking is that no matter what the screen resolution this should still work - no, I don't envisage my visitors using handheld devices. Is this a safe thing to do or am I being naive?
Edited by torka, 15 December 2006 - 10:40 AM.
removed font change
Posted 15 December 2006 - 10:44 AM
(As an aside and BTW, you don't actually need to submit to Google. Get links from pages that are already in their index and you'll get spidered much faster than by submitting to their AddURL form.)
Posted 15 December 2006 - 12:19 PM
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