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Is This Spam?


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47 replies to this topic

#31 Scottie

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 12:37 PM

Look at the rest of the comment tag. Do you see the hyperlinked words there Search Engine Optimization Seminar? This is called "anchor text" am I correct? Anchor text is looked at by search engines.

Hey Stephen- I think you are just somewhat confused.

Anything inside a comment tag is ignored by the search engine. Comment tags are specifically for behind-the-scenes stuff. If they did index them, some of my sites would rank very well for <!--Header begin--> <!--Header end--> and <!-- Content goes here-->

That's how php and javascript work- inside of comment tags. A link inside of a comment tag will be ignored like anything else.

I've seen other threads at other forums that pretty much convince me that comment tags are not indexed. People have run tests putting obscure words in comment tags on high pr pages and months later, they still are not found.

SO- using comment tags for their intended purpose (removing something from being displayed on the page) is perfectly legit.

Hope that helps clear things up for you. :wacko:

#32 Jill

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 12:38 PM

No one would ever ever ever ever ever be penalized for using comment tags for their intended purposes.

I just want to reiterate that for anyone reading this thread. Use them as much or as little as you like.

They are not spam, they cannot get you penalized. Mr. hidden tags has a bit of reading to do.

Jill

#33 NoHiddenTags

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 12:39 PM

I sincerely doubt Jill could get penalized for that...

According to what Jill said in this VERY same thread:

And putting keyword phrases into comment tags is simply dumb! They're ignored by the search engines, and to me it seems like they would set off a red-flag to them too.

If I were a search engine programmer, I'd make my spider check for repetitive keywords in a comment tag and then I would put those pages in a special "pile" for further scrutiny. Betcha that 95% of them would be full of search engine tricks and spam.

So, if it's dumb, can set off red flags, ect. Then why do it?

You guys are flip flopping back and forth and tripping on your own words. So what is it? Do any of you know the right answers? Or is this a case of, Set yourself up as an EXPERT without knowing anything?

#34 qwerty

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 12:50 PM

Immediately before that, Jill wrote

Yes, putting stuff in those tags for the sole purpose of tricking the search engines into thinking your site was more relevant for those phrases than it actually is, would be spam, imo.

There's nothing wrong with using those tags for their intended purpose.


That kind of changes the context, don't you think? The comment is obviously not there "for the sole purpose of tricking the search engines".

#35 NoHiddenTags

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 01:05 PM

No, actually I don't see how that changes the context of things.

A person could say that their purpose is one thing, and indeed their agenda could be another.

Just because someone says it's for "this purpose" does that automatically make what they said true? No, it doesn't.

The fact is the hyperlinked words are Search Engine Optimization Seminar with or without new dates makes no difference.

If it's clearly a case of having the comment tags there for the sole purpose of "knowing where to put it" ... if she's the only one in that code, why wouldn't she remember?

When she's not actively using it, wouldn't it just be better to do this:
<!--- seminar info goes here --->

I'm not trying to be hard-nosed about this. I'm asking because I really don't know. There are LOTS of others who don't know. So, they come to places like these forums, and subscribe to newsletters, so they can learn from the EXPERTS who are supposed to know.

Then on something as silly as this, we have 3 EXPERTS all contradicting one another and contradicting themselves, with every new explanation of "what I mean is this" ... that they reply with.

It's obvious now, that none of you know. You've set yourselves up to be experts on a subject you have no clues about, and now endless masses of innocent people following your examples are in possible danger.

#36 Scottie

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 01:11 PM

Wow Stephen-

You are really worked up about this.

I would suggest you ask the same question in the other 3 major forums and see what the answers are. You can even post that same snippet of code (where allowed) and see what answers you get.

Ihelpyouservices Forum
Cre8asite Forums
Webmaster World

Good luck to you!

#37 NoHiddenTags

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 01:18 PM

Thanks Scottie. I'm not "worked up" about anything. What I am is "curious."

I have a company that makes a lot of money, and we're now considering to put it on the Internet. We're hiring a whole team of individuals to work in this newly created department.

If we can't get straight answers to simple questions, in order to have a better understanding of SEOs then we are prohibited by that lack of knowledge to make an informed and intelligent decision.

When you have a lot of money riding on what someone else can build or destroy, you need to have all the facts first. That's all I am doing is getting the facts.

I'll start with the first forum you listed and ask there. Then maybe judging from the replies, I'll get solid answers. That's all I ever wanted.

Replies full of contradictions are not going to help me or anyone else for that matter.

#38 qwerty

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 01:19 PM

Then on something as silly as this, we have 3 EXPERTS all contradicting one another and contradicting themselves, with every new explanation of "what I mean is this" ... that they reply with.

It's obvious now, that none of you know. You've set yourselves up to be experts on a subject you have no clues about, and now endless masses of innocent people following your examples are in possible danger.

If you're referring to me as one of your "3 EXPERTS," thank you. But I don't see how any of us have contradicted each other, or ourselves here.

I know that the commented text is legitimate, not because I'm an expert, but because I've been reading Jill's site for a long time, and I remember seeing that text when she was promoting that seminar. I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that she'll run it again, since it's a big part of her business, so I have no problem with believing that it's commented out right now as a matter of convenience.

That's what comments are for. I worked briefly as a programmer, and a lot of stuff gets commented, both to indicate what a given snippet of code is for, and to remove stuff that's causing problems. The same is true for HTML. You don't need to completely remove some code just because you don't want it to be shown; you just comment it out.

Let me clarify something for you: a keyword stuffed comment would look something like this:
<!-- search engine optimization seo sem marketing-->
See? This is something that is ONLY there for search engines to see. If you uncommented it and made it visible, it would look stupid, because it's clearly not something that is intended for people to read. It's not content.

#39 Scottie

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 01:19 PM

Trying one more time to help you understand what we are talking about:

<!---search engine optimization, search engines optimisation, SEO, seo, search engines optimization-->

Could easily be seen by a competitor and reported to an SE as spam. It is possible that would be reviewed by a human who would agree. There is no reason for that line to be there other than the hope of manipulating search engine rankings. Unfortunately, it won't help.

<!-- This is where we have the information on our seminar about search engine optimization. There may be an entire table in here including content and tags that we do not currently want to be seen -->

is a comment used for a purpose. If reviewed by a human, it would not be viewed as spam... that is the purpose of comment tags.

#40 NoHiddenTags

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 01:48 PM

Thanks for the heads up on the other search engine forum, Scottie.

I posted the question there as you suggested, along with the code you gave me permission to post.

The thread is here:
ihelpyou search engine forums

Thanks for your time everyone.
Stephen

#41 schecky

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 02:30 PM

Trying one more time to help you understand what we are talking about:

<!---search engine optimization, search engines optimisation, SEO, seo, search engines optimization-->

Could easily be seen by a competitor and reported to an SE as spam.  It is possible that would be reviewed by a human who would agree.  There is no reason for that line to be there other than the hope of manipulating search engine rankings.  Unfortunately, it won't help.

Scottie, I'm by no means an expert on this, since I'm doing those shoddy reviews elsewhere, but, IMO, even if reviewed a SE wouldn't care since they don't index comments. They may have a look see, only to see if there is any "inappropriate activity" since this technique does seem to be in the "spammers guide to higher placement". :D

#42 Jill

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 02:50 PM

It definitely looks like it is open to abuse.  I wouldn't be surprised to find that the engines will eventually have to start checking for this and penalizing accordingly.

Bernard, please tell me you are kidding!

It's not open to abuse at all! It's a comment tag. It's NOT read by the search engines. Why would they read them?

You guys are really looking silly here! This is too much!!!

Please go read the rules on comment tags.

For the last time, and I am going to shout this so that it can get through some of the head's of you people who don't seem to understand about HTML:

COMMENT TAGS ARE USED TO COMMENT STUFF OUT ON YOUR PAGE. YOU WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, GET PENALIZED FOR USING THEM FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE.

Please stop scaring people from using tags the way they are supposed to be used. I'm looking forward to San Jose next week where I can have a good laugh about this ridiculous thread with people from Google (who incidently understand how comment tags are used in Web pages).

I am simply flabergasted that anyone other than someone who was an SEO wannabee in SEO 101 class would ever look at that commented out text on my page and think that it could be used to spam the search engines, or would have any chance in the world of being penalized. One would have to simply not understand Web Pages, Web design, SEO or Comment tags.

It's as simple as that.

Please stop scaring people from using the tags as they are intended. You will never, ever, ever get in trouble for doing so. And I don't want to hear anyone spouting off lies like this any more here. People are scared enough to use HTML tags as they are intended. As if Google has a right to tell people how to design their pages. Google doesn't, nor does Google want to.

This is just getting ridiculous. Obviously the hidden tag guy came into stir up trouble, and showed his or her ignorance in the process.

If I was going to spam the engines, I would certainly do it in a way that wouldn't be obvious to a first year SEO wannabee. Puhleeze.

Jill

#43 NoHiddenTags

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 03:24 PM

This is just getting ridiculous.  Obviously the hidden tag guy came into stir up trouble, and showed his or her ignorance in the process.

Firstly, my name is Stephen. How could that ever lead to speculation that my gender is female? I am indeed a MAN.

Secondly, where do you get off calling me ignorant for simply asking a question? Isn't the sole purpose of these forums to educate others on search engine techniques? People learn by asking questions in case you did not know this. Is this a common practice for you to label anyone who doesn't know anything about SEO as "ignorant" ???

I think the only one here showing ignorance Jill, is you.

Thirdly, I did not come here to stir up trouble as your obviously paranoid remarks suggest. I came here to ask a few questions because we are trying to make an informed decision when choosing to hire an SEO for our company web site.

So, all people who have questions about SEO and ask, are now 'trouble makers?'
With an attitude like that, your forums should be real popular.

Good luck. Maybe you should take a course on Human Relations or at least read a book on how to be polite. It could do wonders for you.

I am simply flabergasted that anyone other than someone who was an SEO wannabee in SEO 101 class would ever look at that commented out text on my page and think that it could be used to spam the search engines, or would have any chance in the world of being penalized.  One would have to simply not understand Web Pages, Web design, SEO or Comment tags.

I'm not an SEO wannabee as you so eloquently stated it. I am simply a Businessman, and have questions about search engine techniques. I've already explained all of that. Perhaps you should take the time to actually read my posts, then you may actually understand.

And I don't want to hear anyone spouting off lies like this any more here.

What lies Jill? That code was taken right from your page. Now that's a lie too?

Please woman, you seem to have some serious problems.

#44 qwerty

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 03:24 PM

In Bernard's defense, the quote you've got there is his opinion of the article cited at the beginning of the thread, not the comment thing.

#45 schecky

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 03:42 PM

Thanks Scottie. I'm not "worked up" about anything. What I am is "curious."

I have a company that makes a lot of money, and we're now considering to put it on the Internet. We're hiring a whole team of individuals to work in this newly created department.

If we can't get straight answers to simple questions, in order to have a better understanding of SEOs then we are prohibited by that lack of knowledge to make an informed and intelligent decision.

Here's a suggestion, in the spirit of being helpful, there are 3rd party SEO recommendation firms who help you prepare your RFP (request for proposal), do the interviews and oversee the the whole process some even do ongoing evaluation of the work being done and are always there to answer your questions.

They will also evaluate what your goals are and help to find SEO's who are known to be experts in that particular field. No firm is a complete solution all are better at some things and less knowledgeable of others. Why not choose a different expert for each activity with the recommendation service co-ordinating?

Why learn SEO? do you take the bar to hire a lawyer? why not just hire someone for your team who knows these things and probably in the long run saves you a lot of time and possibly money. Your time is in fact worth something so why waste it needlessly. Interview the 4 or 5 firms who are doing this and get back to what you know, managing your business.




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