14 replies to this topic

[insideout]

Here are some items that I still believe help for good search engine rankings. I am looking for a yes no answer to these first quesatios and more details after the first five. I will then update this article to help other users with the best pratices.

1. Having a site map will increase visiblity?

2. Having a Google Site map (www.google.com/webmasters/sitemaps/siteoverview) will increase visiblity?

3. Using the H1 tag will increase visibility?

4. I should have a site made just for Google and one just for Yahoo for good visibility?

5. Any resubmission to any of the search engine robots will get them to reindex your site again sooner.


Now a few general questions.

1. Does any of the search engine robots search exteral Java, CSS files?

2. What is a good length for a site title?

3. Does any any META information help improve rankings?

4. Should I have lots of content on the front page of the site, more then I would normally have that is built with good amount of key phrases?

5. Having to many outward links on a site would hurt rankings?

6. It is best to have the top keyphrases I need placement for in the title, meta tags, h1 tag, body copy, alt tags and as many places as possible? Would this not be spaming the search engines?

I hope this list will help everyone and I will compile an update message when this thread closes.

[Jill]

First 5 are all no's. With a caveat on #1. If your pages are not spiderable for some reason, then having a site map will increase visibility, yes.

[insideout]

And how do you come to your conclusion? Testing, theory or just a strong guess?

[OldWelshGuy]

Now a few general questions.

1. Does any of the search engine robots search exteral Java, CSS files?

They certainly call themwhile spidering but what they do with them is another matter.


2. What is a good length for a site title?Whatever makes sense.

There is a myth about truncation, but it is the browsers that truncate, not the search engines. The title should describe the page.

3. Does any any META information help improve rankings?

Define meta? Description is used by the search engines, as to how much weight is on it who knows

4. Should I have lots of content on the front page of the site, more then I would normally have that is built with good amount of key phrases?

You should design your site to be perfect for the visitor, 99:100 times this is what the spiders want also. you should only be targeting 1 or 2 phrases per page anyhow so the need for extra junk shouldn't come into it. Focus on conversions.

5. Having to many outward links on a site would hurt rankings?

Rubbish, outbound links help place your site in the grand scheme of things. But linking to any old rubbish will certainly not help your cause.

6. It is best to have the top keyphrases I need placement for in the title, meta tags, h1 tag, body copy, alt tags and as many places as possible? Would this not be spaming the search engines?

Cramming your keywords everywhere certainly is spammy. use the alt tag for what it is meant to be used for, and header tags the same.

[OldWelshGuy]

And how do you come to your conclusion?  Testing, theory or just a strong guess?

what we do is get two frogs, put them on a table and watch which way they jump Are you seriously asking this question LOL Most of the mods and admins on this forum have been involved with SEO since before SEO existed the answers given are from personal experience and testing. everyone has test pages running that isolate these things, also there is the trusted network where information like this is shared.

[Jill]

And how do you come to your conclusion? Testing, theory or just a strong guess?

I just know.

[chrishirst]

and it's alt attributes

[Bill Slawski]

2. What is a good length for a site title?Whatever makes sense.

There is a myth about truncation, but it is the browsers that truncate, not the search engines. The title should describe the page.

A recent Microsoft research paper exploring identification of web spam by looking at content of pages noted that, while looking at a large body of documents pulled from the web, all of the ones with page titles that were longer than 24 words long were spam. Is it a heuristic that they will adapt or use to identify web spam? Who knows? But, I couldn't see making page titles that long anyway.

Page titles are meant to describe the content on a page, and show up visibly in a few places if you are fortunate:

1. At the top of a browser window
2. In search results
3. Possibly as the anchor text for your page when others link to it.

Search engines do truncate the length of page titles that they display in search results. If part of your aim with a page title is to persuade people to click on the link in those results, and it probably should be, then try not to make the title too much longer than around 6o or so characters. A search engine might index more of the title than shows in results, but I think you lose something by making a title so long - people don't see their keywords reflected in those page titles.

[qwerty]

I'd add that if you're limiting your title tag to 60 or so characters (I go as high as 70, and occasionally a bit higher), you should also consider the number of words you're using. I try to limit myself to 10.

I have a question about insideout's first post: when you say "increase visibility" are you referring to improving rankings on the words in those elements/attributes? Assuming that's what you mean...

Having a site map will increase visiblity?

A site map will include links to your pages, likely using their keywords in the anchor text. As such, it can help. On top of that, it can help get pages indexed, particularly if your navigation isn't very SE-friendly.

Having a Google Site map will increase visiblity?

All it will help with is getting pages indexed.

Using the H1 tag will increase visibility?

Using it properly probably will.

I should have a site made just for Google and one just for Yahoo for good visibility?

No.

Any resubmission to any of the search engine robots will get them to reindex your site again sooner.

Submission shouldn't be necessary in the first place. However, if a site should drop out of the index, and you have reason to believe that it happened because the site was unavailable when the spider attempted to crawl it, I'd probably submit it just to send the SE the message that it's back and they should try to crawl it again. Whether or not that's helpful I don't know, but it only takes a moment.

[OldWelshGuy]

I would agree with that Bill. but who in their right mind is going to have tht many words in their page title? Then again I suppose nothing should be taken for granted. If as we both said, the page title is meant to describe the page, just as the alt attribute is meant to describe the content of the image, then provided these rules are followed worrying about spamming should never be a problem.

The bonus of doing it this way (the right way) is as you say, the human visitor can see a sensible page title and is more likely to click on it.

[foamcow]

and it's alt attributes

Chris, you should get a T-Shirt with that on

[qwerty]

It does need to be said a lot, but at least there's no danger of confusing it with something else. The title tag/title attribute thing tends to confuse a lot of noobs: "Waddya mean the title is ignored? I just read right here that it's important!"

[Leann_Pass]

1. Having a site map will increase visiblity?

Having a sitemap is great idea because 1) it helps the SE's get to all your links easily 2) it helps your visitors find their way around. The sitemap is especially useful for sites with a lot of pages, and really any site with pages more than 1 click deep.

Expanding on the sitemap thing - A good sitemap is more than a bunch of links, it is organized and has good content as well.

2. Having a Google Site map (www.google.com/webmasters/sitemaps/siteoverview) will increase visiblity?

Ehh? Maybe, maybe not - but it won't hurt. Keep in mind that Google was indexing pages just fine pre-google sitemaps, and that hasn't changed (at least not yet).

3. Using the H1 tag will increase visibility?

Header tags are GOOD -all else being equal, headers can help a tiny bit with the SE's and they are good for Users if used appropriately.

Personally I find headers to be most useful when they are used as intended - (h1 is main header, meaning 1 h1 per page. Then h2, h3 when and if needed for sensical/logical page organization.)

4. I should have a site made just for Google and one just for Yahoo for good visibility?

Definitely NOT. Just plain NO.

5. Any resubmission to any of the search engine robots will get them to reindex your site again sooner.

NO and NO again. First of all you NEVER need to submit any site to the SE's even once- the search "robots" find your site through links that point to your site. If you find that your site is indexed and then un-indexed (as often happens with Google), or that you just aren't getting indexed at all - it is most likely due to a lack of links pointing at ya.

Now a few general questions.


2. What is a good length for a site title?

There is NO magic length. Some people say 70 characters, some less, some more - I say as many as you need - I usually suggest 4-10 words. Tighter is better IMO.

3. Does any any META information help improve rankings?

Um, not really - but it is useful in its own right - so shouldn't be ignored. Meta Descriptions can be really helpful for getting people to click on your site in the SERPS - but truly, this tag won't make your site rank any higher.

4. Should I have lots of content on the front page of the site, more then I would normally have that is built with good amount of key phrases?

Yes and No. Most SE's like a good amount of content - So having a lot of good content on the front page (or any page) is good, However placing a bunch of non-sense that is "more than you would normally have" and stuffed with keywords will do exactly the opposite of what you want - so that would be bad news.

5. Having to many outward links on a site would hurt rankings?

NOPE! Link away to any site you find useful- just link smart (no trash, no bad neighborhoods - authority site links are best).

6. It is best to have the top keyphrases I need placement for in the title, meta tags, h1 tag, body copy, alt tags and as many places as possible? Would this not be spaming the search engines?

Nope - using title tags, meta tags, copy, headers, alt attributes - that is not spamming the search engines. If your keyword phrases make sense for your site (and they should) then OF COURSE you will want to place them in the title, meta description, meta keywords, on-page copy and in the image alt attributes where it makes sense.

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You really missed out on some of the MOST IMPORTANT factors that exist when it comes to rankings - my suggestion - just relax, study what is going on out there, play around with 2 or 5 or 10 sites, take them through a dozen or so [url=http://searchengineland.com/070621-145956.php]Keep the Faith When the Algo Changes[/url], and eventually you'll begin to get a real grip on how this all works.


The truth is there is no magic SEO formula and there just aren't a lot of Yes/No, Black/White answers. When Jill says "I just know" - it's because she does - So you see, once you really get it, that is exactly how it is - you just KNOW.

Leann

Edited by Leann_Pass, 04 September 2006 - 04:17 PM.

[sonnyyu]

I just know.

by watch which way two frogs jump? It is cool!

[Jill]

by watch which way two frogs jump? It is cool!

Not frogs. Toads.