41 replies to this topic

[chaz7979]

Is it known that msn cant properly deal with 301's? I am finding cached urls that have been updated within the last 24 hours for sites that have had 301's set up for over a year.

[Randy]

Much too general of a statement there chaz7979.

Just because MSN may have maintained the cache of an old page they knew about doesn't mean they're not correctly following the 301 properly. There are lots of times that it'll take a good amount of time for the redirected pages to be flushed out of the cache, but that alone doesn't tell you much. Besides, if the 301 is properly constructed there's nothing for them to see at the old location.

I would first verify that your 301 is delivering a properly constructed 301 Moved Permenently error message first. I can't tell you the number of times I've run across people who thought they had a 301 when they really had a 302.

[chaz7979]

They are not old caches they have been frshly indexed this week.

I assure you the 301 is correctly set up. Not only did I code it myself, but once I saw that it was still being indexed I tested it. It returns a 301 and redirects beautifully.

I would should you the search and results in msn, and you could click the links yourself to see they redirect (but urls are against the rules). The whole thing is blowing my mind.

[projectphp]

What's to stress about? What does it really matter if an OLD URL, that people can still find your pages via, is in the index?

[Randy]

Feel free to PM the details if you would like another pair of eyes to take a look. But I'll tell you up front that all of the search engines are slow to drop pages they already knew about when you set up a 301. I've seen it take months and months, then see the pages disappear, then show back up again if the engine installs an algo update that is using older cache info for their seed data.

It still doesn't mean they don't understand there's a 301 in effect and are treating it absolutely correctly. It just means they've still got the old data in their cache because they don't drop 'em right away.

[chaz7979]

What's to stress about? What does it really matter if an OLD URL, that people can still find your pages via, is in the index?

I worry the SE's see duplicate content. One day my site will show up in SERPS with the root and some days it will show up with /index.php, its like it doesnt know which to use.

I've seen it take months and months, then see the pages disappear, then show back up again if the engine installs an algo update that is using older cache info for their seed data.

It still doesn't mean they don't understand there's a 301 in effect and are treating it absolutely correctly.  It just means they've still got the old data in their cache because they don't drop 'em right away.

I understand it takes time, but the cache says 9/2, the date is right under the link plain as day saying it was indexed yesterday. If the date said 9/2/2005 I wouldnt care.

[Randy]

This is a www.domain.com -> www.domain.com/index.php problem then?

How are you doing the redirect? Because if you're on a typical Apache server and not using THE_REQUEST in your RewriteCond it's quite possible the spiders are still getting to the index.php address. You could be throwing your server into a loop, and most of servers are only going to loop so long before stopping wherever they happen to stop before the loop brings the entire server to it's knees.

[chaz7979]

I use php to create the 301. The pages do return a valid 301 when tested.

[projectphp]

Again, why stress and who cares? If they show /index.php or /, and they both get to the same page, same same move on.

Honestly, there ar more important and productive things you could do with your time. My advice would be to let it go and not worry. If you have it right, then there is nothing more you can do, because the SEs are out of your control. make a list of ten other things you can do to make your site better, and go and do that.

[chaz7979]

But one day the SERP shows index.php and the next day it shows the root url. Back and forth back and forth. It seems google doesnt know they are the same and maybe has a dup content penalty.

No other domain I own switches back and forth from the root to the index.php page. So there must be an issue.

No other domain I own is been beaten down in the SERPs like this site has either. I dont think it is a coincidence.

[torka]

Wait a minute -- are we talking about MSN or Google's SERPs here? I'm confused...

BTW, there's no such thing as a duplicate content penalty in Google.

--Torka

[Jill]

and maybe has a dup content penalty.

No such thing...(as Torka already mentioned)

[Randy]

Chaz I would really recommend that you not start guessing wildly at what the cause may or may not be. If you haven't already, please use any of the header checker tools out there (WebBug is what I use and is free) if you really think the 301's are causing confusion.

Based soley upon few details you've mentioned in a few different threads, I would be first looking for a technical problem. Especially if either you've changed hosting recently or your host has made any changes to your server. In my experience many, many times the culprit is some techinical problem --that can be almost undetectible if you don't know what to look for or have the right tools to do the looking-- when a longstanding, well ranking domain takes a sudden nose dive.

Penalties are far less frequent than simple technical problems. But in either case it doesn't do you any good to look at one or two things then then guess as to a possible cause.

[projectphp]

But one day the SERP shows index.php and the next day it shows the root url. Back and forth back and forth. It seems google doesnt know they are the same and maybe has a dup content penalty.

How on Earth do you know that? You can't seriously look at rankings every day, can you?

Besides, your site aparently shows up for whatever this search is so, and I want this to be clear so there is no confusion....

WHAT DOES IT MATTER?

Your site shows up. Move on.

No other domain I own switches back and forth from the root to the index.php page. So there must be an issue.

And so what if there is? There are issues everywhere, some of which are worth looking into, some os which aren't. You know which camp I'd put this one in?

[Jill]

Good point, Mike!