36 replies to this topic

[ewc21]

Showing the top brass some comparison in results based on traditional marketing and online marketing should get them going.

It's not entirely their fault not to pay too much attention to the "new" stuff; they hire "specialists" who may lack knowledge in bringing desired results.

[praveen]

It's not entirely their fault not to pay too much attention to the "new" stuff; they hire "specialists" who may lack knowledge in bringing desired results.

when they can afford pay attention to something in the traditional marketing why cant they spend couple of hours per week/month into understanding this. (forget learning).

if they did that or atleast know bits and pieces, then they atleast can understand what the "specialist" is doing.

[MtraX]

On the contrary, I think if they start reading and they read the wrong stuff, it could be detrimental to your efforts since they might start thinking they 'know' what's got to be done. It would be best if you educate the client yourself.

[praveen]

Yes, but atleast they will know something to start off with rather than having no knowledge abt it

[noel_x99]

I tend to agree with that- educating your customers is a better way to go. Mainstream media is always seems to be bit behind and a bit inaccurate. It's harder to un-teach the things they think they know.

[Martin C]

Many people over estimate the number of visitors their website receives. If the website's purpose is not revenue generating and therefore its success needs to be judge through other means it is often the case that they can be misled by meaningless metrics that some hosts provide. I'm sure others have come across people that having launched a new website that say they are receiving thousands of visitors a month.

I know a number of medium sized businesses that have websites that they have spent thousands developing but there is no one in the company that actually knows what the purpose of the website is beyond the 'we must have one'.

Many websites lack any real purpose. If they are non-revenue generating they are generally launched and then left to rot.

There is often a gulf between a company's New business resource, who are unaware of the technical opportunities that exist, and the technical personnel, who 'haven't been asked the question'.

SEO consultants will do well to identify this gulf and become proactive in exciting the New Business personnel by introducing them to the possibilities that exist and then guide the in-house technical resource on how they go about implementing SEO. If you are wanting to be passive you will be waiting a long time for many of the companies to understand the opportunities SEO can bring.

[praveen]

SEO consultants will do well to identify this gulf and become proactive in exciting the New Business personnel by introducing them to the possibilities that exist and then guide the in-house technical resource on how they go about implementing SEO. If you are wanting to be passive you will be waiting a long time for many of the companies to understand the opportunities SEO can bring.

But how many SEO's (apart from the top ones we know) are willing to spend that time to educate the clients?

it has to come from with them.

obviously the client will say, i want number 1 rankings cos in their outlook, they are paying and they wont settle for anything less than the best.

its more like buying stuff for your home. you pay top dollars to buy the top goods.

this is where the seo comes in and "teaches" them.

but, in my region(geo location), most of the seo's dont bother with the teaching bit cos they got what they wanted, i.e. $$$...

unless there is a concerted effort, we will continue to see clients paying top $$$ for some ****** work.


but if the client has some prior knowledge (bad or good) it will help stop these robberies.

after all if someone has gone to the xtent of learning something (even if its bad), it is easier to convince him to learn the good bits cos you know he will put that effort to learn

[Martin C]

But how many SEO's (apart from the top ones we know) are willing to spend that time to educate the clients?

Well personally I think it is one of attitude. Too many SEO's are expecting too much support and appreciation from their clients - when the clients can often not understand the first thing about SEO.

In a first meeting I think it is important to set the ground rules, and find out how much 'support' you are going to get from the client and be prepared to walk away if you think it is project that is not going to be workable and/or cost effective.

People say that they want to employ an SEO consultant but many then shy away when they find out it involves a lot of time and effort - so it is best to get that out in the open.

SEO consultants can get a website to rank well but they can't do it overnight and for peanuts - trouble is that some SEO 'consultants' say they can and, not surprisingly, when it doesn't happen the clients are less than happy.

Sure there are bad clients, but there are also lot of false, or implied promises.

[praveen]

Sure there are bad clients, but there are also lot of false, or implied promises.

on the dot

be prepared to walk away if you think it is project that is not going to be workable and/or cost effective.

unfortunately not many are willing to do that. all they see is the $$$ which the client gives them and nothing else.

Well personally I think it is one of attitude. Too many SEO's are expecting too much support and appreciation from their clients - when the clients can often not understand the first thing about SEO.

Yep.

[smc_online]

I've been doing SEO for a long time (7 years). You would have thought that all of these misconceptions would have been cleared by now. But the only shift has been from uneducated well meaning SEO's jump starting their SEM professions (that was me ) to uneducated customers AND employers.

I would love to squash all of the false or misleading information once and for all!

But i don't see that happening.

[arlen]

I find this thread intriguing, and timely. I'm not an SEO, and would not choose to become one, the opportunities for issues like this to arise are astoundingly high simply because of the nature of the work, and the inability to specifically define the "product". However these kinds of issues are far from unique to what you all do, they exist in most every "service" industry out there.

I have about 17 years of professional working experience in architecture ... about 15 full-time as a staff architect (in relatively large corporate firms with large corporate or institutional clients), and 2 independently on a contract basis at less than full-time. I have to agree with almost everything Martin has said. In my experience, success is all about client education, very carefully defined expectations from the get-go, and regular client communications throughout the life of a project . In my experience this almost never happens adequately. Also in my experience, others involved in other aspects of a project can undermine this education simply with off-hand statements based in self-promotion, ignorance and very little specific knowledge of the actual design and technical processes (equivalent to bad SEO info). You have to develop instincts to anticipate issues before they arise, and do damage control as soon as they become apparent - long before they have the chance to fester. I'm honestly not very good at handling these issues myself, and have little room to criticize others.

Failures are almost always failures of communication. Successful projects hinge on very specific contract language defining exactly what is covered, adequately defining how changes are handled, and regularly referencing the contract when scope creep or unreasonable expectations raise their ugly head. Unfortunately, as with SEO, the actual process is so alien to the average client that even with a lot of effort, they never really get it. (Often they think that simply because we use computers drawings are automatic when in reality the computer is nothing more than a fancy pencil for us).

Unfortunately I have a meeting this afternoon where I will have to face the music with a manager I've worked with and been friends with for years ... communications have gotten too lax and informal between us and I'm going to have to do some real damage control. It's not a major issue, I can back up the time and invoicing issues that are of concern, but it does impact our relationship and if not handled carefully will affect my reputation and potentially the possibility of future work. This is precisely the reason I am so intent on building a small business of my own that is not in a "service" industry.

[smc_online]

Great post!

Also in my experience, others involved in other aspects of a project can undermine this education simply with off-hand statements based in self-promotion, ignorance and very little specific knowledge of the actual design and technical processes (equivalent to bad SEO info).

You hit the nail on the head arlen!

(Often they think that simply because we use computers drawings are automatic when in reality the computer is nothing more than a fancy pencil for us).

So true in any industry...technology is a tool and enabler. That is often misunderstood for intellect and experience.

[Scottie]

Communication is the bottom line.

In my last office job, one of my tasks was to train the salespeople on how to "sell what we do".

We (like many web companies) had problems with salespeople promising the earth and sky to customers ("Sure, it can do your taxes and alert you when the ficus needs watering as well as integrate with your ancient C++ backend all for only $5k...")

My job was to get them to really understand the nature of the product and know when to get a technical consultation before quoting a price.

No matter how hard I tried and how they seemed to be getting the picture, it never really worked.

Imagine if your own employees don't "get it", how hard it is to set the correct expectations with the client?

[EGM]

In my own experience, I have found a number of people who believe that search engine optimization involves the "SEO expert" going out to Google, fiddling with the knobs and levers and making a web site rank better through this method.

I once had to completely walk away from a potential client who went over the proposal and adamantly said "This all sounds good, but you can't make any changes to our web site. We like it the way it is."

*sigh*

Just remember: Myths are an opportunity to educate.

[MtraX]

"I once had to completely walk away from a potential client who went over the proposal and adamantly said "This all sounds good, but you can't make any changes to our web site. We like it the way it is."

Join the club

I would add my 2c and suggest you add a clause in your contract to state that only you can make changes to the client's site while under contract, or that all changes should first be approved by you as SEO before being implemented, otherwise the contract and results promised are null and void.

MtraX