34 replies to this topic

[Big Bill]

A disclaimer saying that you can't guarantee #1 Google rankings on a specific keyword phrase is not the same thing (in my mind) as what you originally asked, i.e., that you cannot be held responsible if the client doesn't get significant rankings.

Those are two very different things.

Indeed they are, and I would want it to be understood, especially with a client who showed signs of being a pain in the backside, that while my best efforts would be routinely be exercised on their behalf that no guarantee could be made regarding either one of them.

I do understand that I shouldn't falsely advertise something I can't do or achieve - this is something I have no intention of doing. I can do what I say I can do but certain clients may question why they haven't received a no 1 google ranking.

I suspect that what the OP means here is that he doesn't want some addle-brained nutball holding him "liable" (as opposed to "responsible") for "losses" arising from some wholly misguided financial projections based on entirely false assumptions regarding improved rankings. "Dearie me, we didn't get to No. 1 in Google for everything in ten minutes so now I can't rule the world so I'm going to sue somebody for big bucks out of spite and because I can."
Y'know. Like that.
And I don't blame the OP at all for being cautious. I don't think any contract will help, though. Let's face it, who understands terms in SEO? Who would you call as an expert witness? Let everyone who reads this describe to an imaginary judge right now what a doorway page is. How many different versions did we get? How would a judge determine what was fair and appropriate? Best thing to do with the awkward clients is not get involved in the first place.

BB

[sweepthelegnate]

You could pretty much guarantee or promise anything to a client as long as you're willing to back it up with a real guarantee and not double talk. At this stage of the game in SEO I've seen quite a few companies who have been around in circles in their online strategy. They've paid a lot of money to firms that have gladly cashed their check and done nothing to increase their bottom line from the web. Go into a meeting with a potential client like that, and you're not going to be starting a relationship unless you put something of meaning on the table.

I wouldn't consider guaranteeing rankings to be all that meaningful these days...considering at anyone time you could be seeing different results depending on the datacenter, that's a pretty hard metric to put your finger on. However, I wouldn't blink guaranteeing a percentage increase in sales or something along those lines.

[Paul_B]

I give a money back guarantee that I will get my clients site on the first page of a google search. At this stage I have never had to refund a clients money but I accept that if and when the time comes I will willingly do so and factor this into my price.

This is conditional that they take my advice to the letter and there is no guarantee of how long it will stay there unless it becomes an ongoing contract.

If you manufacture kettles sooner or latter even if beyond your control a kettle will fail and you will have to give a refund. Kettle manufacturers allow for this in their price structure.

[qwerty]

Qwerty [Always spell the mod's nick correctly.] - I personally do believe it is insane - but ya know that's just me.

I don't really disagree with you, Leann. I would be insane to do it, especially since I lecture my clients about how rankings are not what it's all about.

But that doesn't mean it's crazy for everyone. In a business like ours, that has a reputation that rivals lawyers and real estate agents for trustworthiness (though none of us can hold a candle to politicians ) just imagine how much an SEO with a clear and genuine guarantee would stand out from the crowd. Like I said before, they'd better be prepared to actually pay up, so they'd better have a pile of money set aside just in case, but to some people it might be worth it just from a marketing perspective. If you can prove you really do refund customers when you don't meet their expectations, you've just bought yourself some trust.

My site does have a guarantee, but of a different sort: "if you ask me to look over your web site and I fail to see any room for improvement, I won't take the job, and I won't charge you for the time it took me to come to that conclusion."

[ianfusa]

Another thing you may want to consider is to make sure that you document all the changes that you make to the site so that, if you're challenged on your actions, you can then establish that what you did is generally accepted as good practice in your profession. In malpractice cases the standard is basically what's considered good practice by your professional peers.

Ian

[norty911]

Thank you for the replies guys, much appreciated

[norty911]

I suspect that what the OP means here is that he doesn't want some addle-brained nutball holding him "liable" (as opposed to "responsible") for "losses" arising from some wholly misguided financial projections based on entirely false assumptions regarding improved rankings. "Dearie me, we didn't get to No. 1 in Google for everything in ten minutes so now I can't rule the world so I'm going to sue somebody for big bucks out of spite and because I can."
Y'know. Like that.

Thats exactly what I mean

[smc_online]

The consensus is that it is best to steer away from guarantees and focus on service. I concur.

I believe that it is more important to be clear on the objectives and goals and stipulate those goals and objectives in writing. As well as maintain your integrity by standing by them.

Search marketing is still in its infancy regarding the use of "page position rank" whereby many clients remain fixated in becoming and maintaining the coveted #1 spot as opposed to focusing on service. In other words, they are worried about style over substance.

As much as I try to explain to many (including my employer) that it is not about position but presentation of products and services that matter, I still find much resistance.

[jehochman]

Here's what I tell clients, "I don't control the search engines, nor do I control the competition, so rankings are never guaranteed."

It's a bad idea to guarantee something that you can't fully control.

[St0n3y]

There are a lot of different things that can be guaranteed:

* Guaranteed top 5 placement on Google for Keyword X. I'd stay far, far away from these, unless the client is allowed to pay ONLY when this performance is achieved, never before.

* Guaranteed top placement on multiple search engines for many keywords. This seems to be most guarantees. It's intentionally broad and easy to achieve while still giving the client little in terms of positive results.

* Guaranteed increase in traffic. Traffic is good, but only if its converting traffic.

* Guaranteed increase in sales. Good for the client, but bad for SEO unless they have full control of the website AND sales process.

* Guaranteed optimization of X pages, achieving X number of links, target X number of pages, etc. Here you're paying for work, but not necessarily results.

Here are some of problems with Guarantees (IMO).

1) SEOs that offer them often provide enough small-print in the contract to make the guarantee absolutely worthless. They'll guarantee a #1 position but the contract says that if client fails to implement all the suggestions then the guarantee is void. This allows the SEO to make up stupid stuff that no client would do just to void paying the guarantee.

2) Without full control of a website, the client can interfere with the SEO process and therefore be the cause of poor performance. SEO does all the right things, the client doesn't, results don't happen. Who's at fault?

3) Paying for performance (i.e. commissions on sales) have the inherit problems of #2 while also forcing a whole new layer of reliable tracking in order to ensure the SEO is getting their fare shake. I've seen quite a few of these kinds of deals go bad.

[smc_online]

It's a bad idea to guarantee something that you can't fully control.

I agree! Its like guaranteeing that you'll wake up tomorrow. Even tomorrow is not a guarantee!



Ok...the way I see it is that the only "guarantee" in this whole topic is a headache!

[Jill]

This thread is really not about whether you can guarantee SEO services or not. We've had thread like that already.

There's a big difference between guaranteeing rankings and taking no responsibility for them.

Am I the only one who sees that?

[qwerty]

I think we do. A guarantee of rankings is an extreme form of taking responsibility for them. But a guarantee also needn't involve a refund. It could say that you promise to continue to work to reach certain goals.

[St0n3y]

From both the SEO and client perspective I think it's important to understand what the SEO can or can't do and any limitations that they will be facing. Only after all this is known can the SEO know exactly what they can and should take responsibility for.

[Big Bill]

Thats exactly what I mean

I guessed. Point is, a contract isn't actually worth anything. If the other side's got a lot more money than you, it really doesn't matter that legally you're right and they're wrong, they can walk away from a court case having lost it with their funds hardly dented and you walk away having won the case but with your career destroyed. Going to law to solve a dispute is fine between the butcher and the candlestick maker but when it comes to Mega-Corp Intl. against a private individual with just above a Joe Sixpack income it's a bit of a joke. Unless both antagonists are evenly matched in circumstance and finance, which in real life they rarely are, law doesn't solve much of anything at all. So there's not much point in having a contract if you can't afford what it would take to enforce the terms anyway. IMHO.

BB