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Overture*google*wordtracker- Keyword Tools


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35 replies to this topic

#16 Scottie

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 12:58 PM

It's all about how you want to use the tools. I know several sites who only need to make 1 sale a month to justify the expense of their website- 30 searches might indicate a phrase that is targeted enough to triple their volume. Are there people who target low volume searches? Most definitely!

The bottom line is that if you count on the keyword research tools as an accurate indicator of 'real' searches taking place, you are likely to be disappointed. They can go a long way into helping you make decisions on keywords to target, but there isn't a single best way to approach the data, IMO.

#17 compar

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 02:30 PM

It's all about how you want to use the tools. I know several sites who only need to make 1 sale a month to justify the expense of their website- 30 searches might indicate a phrase that is targeted enough to triple their volume.  Are there people who target low volume searches?  Most definitely!

If someone really is going to be satisfied with a keyword that only get used 30 times a month I don't think they need keyword search tools. If they sell "left handed reverse blue widgets" then just say so. If someone wants one they will search on that term.

Further to that there is really nothing that can be done about the skew but possibly be aware of it. I still maintain it has minimal impact on the validity of popular search terms. If the tools report that a term is searched on 15,000 per month then what it is really saying is this is a popular term. Whether the real live searchers are typing this in only 10,000 or 12,000 time isn't relative. If you can get well ranked for this term you are going to get a lot of people going to your page.

#18 Scottie

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Posted 10 August 2003 - 03:06 PM

Further to that there is really nothing that can be done about the skew but possibly be aware of it.

If you can get well ranked for this term you are going to get a lot of people going to your page.

Agreed! :D

#19 compar

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 04:06 PM

Agreed!  :(

Hurrah!!!! We should break open a bottle of champagne. I finally got something right. :D

#20 Jill

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 04:30 PM

Further to that there is really nothing that can be done about the skew but possibly be aware of it.


Be aware of it, but also don't be surprised if you don't get the kind of traffic you might think you would get by a phrases "apparent" popularity.

Take "search engine optimization" for instance. My RankWrite site was #2 or #3 for that phrase for over a year (maybe 2). But I only received a few clickthrough's for that a day.

According to WordTracker, it's predicted to get 1288 in each 24 hour period across all the engines. (The site wasn't #2 in every engine, but I believe it was pretty much top 10 in most.)

I believe I can account for the high predicted count and low actual traffic due to the fact that a good portion (if not most) of the searches for that particular phrase were due to automated queries.

Of course, that phrase is going to be a lot more skewed than others due to it's nature, but it illustrates the point pretty well.

Jill

#21 compar

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 05:11 PM

Be aware of it, but also don't be surprised if you don't get the kind of traffic you might think you would get by a phrases "apparent" popularity.

I believe I can account for the high predicted count and low actual traffic due to the fact that a good portion (if not most) of the searches for that particular phrase were due to automated queries. 

Jill,

You raise an interesting point. Maybe I should open a new thread talking about AdWords. But here is the tie in. I was buying some AdWord ads for an Internet Drug Store site. Google's estimate of the number of click throughs and the daily budget was almost $400 -- 200 click at $2.00 each. I never got any where near this number of clicks.

Now I know there are a lot of factors involved, for instance the quality of the ad will affect the click through percentage. In my case the ad always got approximately a 5% click through. I don't know what percentage Google assumes in their estimate, but I doubt it would be higher than 5%.

Do you think it is possible that Google's estimates are being skew by automated searches on the prescription drug related key words?

#22 Jill

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 05:51 PM

Yep, I think Google's numbers are way off too.

A good way to get real numbers is to open up a Google AdWords campaign, which I think we talked about elsewhere in this thread or another.

Jill

#23 market seeker

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 10:45 PM

do you think there are more automated quieries made for certain topics. I mean I'm sure there are more for say internet marketing than RV Parks right?

#24 Jill

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 11:08 PM

Yeah, MS, I would agree. But any phrase is subject to it if the company hired someone with WPG or the like! So you really just don't know.

J

#25 mcanerin

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 07:42 PM

One real danger of these kind of searches is that you often end up with a KEI that is HUGE becasue of this. After all, if there is only 3 sites that sell, for example, "blue frogs" and you run a daily search on the term, you have a KEI of 300!

If you were new at the SEO game and didn't trust your instincts yet, it would be very easy to do a Wordtracker report (with KEI) and then focus on this term for your pet shop or whatever because of this huge KEI.

Worse, if you were a scammer, you could show a client that you've got him focused on this esoteric keyword that was way more "effective" (that's that KEI stands for, remember?) than the "petshop" words he wanted, thus saving yourself a lot of work, guaranteeing top placement, and doing all under a cloak of "science". Very easy to take advantage of people this way.

Hey, that was a short post, I'm getting better at this ;)

#26 mcanerin

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 07:54 PM

Ok maybe not. The other thing I just thought of was that of course SE's would really prefer us not to do these searches for (i'm sure) several reasons.

Wouldn't it be nice if some <ahem> forward-looking, popular, and competitive SE, who may employ a person who may actually read this, would implement a search query for SEO's and others interested in playing with results or doing research, or testing, but not interested in actually clicking on the results (thus skewing things like Ad-words, KEI, etc).

As long as the results were just as recent as the main engine, I'm sure that all these issues with automated queries would go away, especially since it would be far easier to lay down guidelines and rules for it. Depending on what additional information came with it, I'd even pay to have access to it.

one possible example query: research:my keyword

Ian

#27 Linky

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 01:59 AM

Hello Everyone!

I just wanted to check a "belief" I have relating to the skew issue with Word Tracker versus other keyword popularity tools. Isn't Word Tracker less susceptible to skew (from position checkers) because it is using data from Meta Crawlers (which position checkers don't usually query)?

Cheers, :dance:

#28 Mel

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 09:54 AM

Yes there is that but then there is the skew the other way because the searches are not done on the search engines you want to rank well on.

#29 Jill

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Posted 24 August 2003 - 11:41 AM

There's definitely skew in Wordtracker. Forget about the numbers they show, just look at the relative position of phrases to figure out which ones are searched on and which aren't.

Jill

#30 amabaie

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 11:06 AM

Mcanerin, you have just given me another reason to be wary of KEI.

Back when I was first learning SEO -- not as long ago as it seems, but before I discovered WordTracker -- I had developed a crude version of KEI on my own. Hey, the concept just made so much sense.

But then I ran up against reality. KEI takes account of all searches and all results equally. This thread essentially is saying that all searches are not equal. But all results are not equal, either. That's why I stopped relying on KEI some time ago.

While selecting keyword phases for a dating site two weeks ago, Keyword1 was by far more popular than Keyword2 on both Overture and WordTracker. Furthermore, there was significantly less competition on Google for Keyword1. Sounds like a no-brainer, right?

But here's the catch: results 11 to 43,000,000 are irrelevant. Who cares whether there are 43,000,000 or 4,300 results for a keyword phrase? The question is: how good are the top ten players for each search, how well optimized -- and KEI totally misses this.

Have I lost anybody? OK, time for a ludicrous annalogy. Say you are head of the Tanzanian Olympic Committee and your triatholon team never seems to be able to get into the medal rounds. So you apply the KEI principal and figure out that it is statistically easier to break into the medal rounds for downhil skiing. :doh:

KEI looks at how wide the competition is, not how deep.




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