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Comparing "search Engine Optimization" On Majors


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#16 projectphp

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 02:00 AM

What about customer serrvice? Do you always buy the "est"est, e.g. the cheapest, Fastest or biggest? Would you only buy the fastest car? The biggest house? Or would you choose one that best fit your needs? Some SEO's specialise in traditional SEo, others CPC based Search Engine Marketing, or SEM.

There are so many factors involved in choosing an SEO, and in reality, the best thing you can do is:
a. Understand what you need.
b. Check their credentials.
c. Check their strategies and tactics: Do they spam? cloak?
d. Get references.
e. Don't get locked into a longterm, expensive deal. Shop around, find one you feel comfortable with.

Besides all this, the strategies neccessary to rank well for a specific phrase may not be the best way to generate the largest volume of relevant traffic, i.e. some sites rank well for two or three phrases, but nothing else. Others rank less well for specifics, but due to large volumes of content, generate massive traffic from a variety of phrases that collective deliver deliver a far greater volume of traffic.

Rankings may be important but, IMHO, there are so many other factors involved, that choosing one factor as the sole means of choosing an SEO is stupendously simplistic approach. Instead, approach choosing an SEO the same way you would choosing any other "professional", e.g. lawyer, doctor or accountant. A lot of old-skool wisdom and common sense that ppl spend years developing, the BS radar if you will, is somehow lost when people look at technology issues. If you follow your gut instinct, and all of the wisdom you have garnered in other areas, you will be less likely to get a lemon.

#17 seo

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 02:53 PM

To find out Google's "Relevancy SERPs Algorithms" and keep abreast of their changes Analyzing the top 20 results for :
search engine optimization
have consistantly proven to be the best outlet
Since these Webmasters/SEOs are probably the most sophisticated or tactful
their html code and links gives the best analysis

http://www.highranki...om/issue079.htm


[Deleted copy of Google serps. - Jill]

Edited by Jill, 21 November 2003 - 03:55 PM.


#18 Paul J

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 03:17 PM

if you were looking for an ESTABLISHED SEO

would you pick the companies that came up the highest for:


SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMIZATION
SEARCH ENGING RANKING
SEARCH ENGINE PLACEMENT
SEARCH ENGINE POSITIONING


I wouldn't necessarily, for many of the same reasons others have pointed out.

With that said, you can bet that the companies that have great rankings for these terms have sales reps that sell the fact that they ARE ranked in the top "x", so why would you go with anyone else? I would guess that it works as well.

Paul

#19 mcanerin

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 03:23 PM

Slightly off topic but related. When I started doing SEO almost everyone I talked to would ask what SEO was, and when I said "search engine optimisation" they said, "whats that?"

So then I started asking them what THEY would type in looking for this service. And optimised for that.

Honestly, I think that the vast majority of "searches" for "search engine optimisation" are SEO-wannabe's looking at there own rankings and those of their competitors!

I had one guy tell me that he wanted me to optimize for keyphrase X. Keyphrase X was stupid. I asked why he would want me to optimise for this, since I couldn't imagine anyone searching in that way. He told me there are a lot of people searching for it every month (in this case a lot is 20 to 30 - for this business it would be a lot). I asked how he knew, and he said that he had a wordtracker account and was checking. He also had WPG and was running constant searches. For? You guessed it. This phrase. He was optimizing for a phrase that only he was searching for! AAAARRGH!

Has it occured to anyone that every time you check your rank (instead of doing a "real" search) you mess with the results? YOUR results? And that the industries who check their rankings the most are likely to have the most messed up results?

Uh, but go ahead... :) As a matter of fact, I rather encourage it.... :cheers:

All I know is that most customers I get, typed in a keyphrase, my site came up number one or at least on the first page, and they assumed that it was because I knew something they didn't. And they didn't type search engine optimization. Maybe I'm missing something here...

Ian

#20 OldWelshGuy

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 03:33 PM

What about customer serrvice? Do you always buy the "est"est, e.g. the cheapest, Fastest or biggest? Would you only buy the fastest car? The biggest house? Or would you choose one that best fit your needs?

I have to agree with this statement as i have been on both ends of it, I have won, and lost business because of the nature of the beast that is being a small company, (myself & my Wife).

We get most of our work from referrals, and as such tend to work with Small to medium businesses (up to 500 employees down to 1 man bands). We do however have customers from local government and some high street names, but having dealt on a local level.

It was from such a job that we 'lost out due to what we are' they were so pleased that their regional manager contacted me to see if we could arrange a meeting with a view to more work, we did this, and i did the usual laid back thing, and all was well until they asked me what provision we had for cover, it was then that they decided it would be a risk to put all their eggs in one basket, and i lost the job. They did offer me a contract to oversee the job from a distance though so i did not lose out completely.

On the other hand, 90% of my customers deal with me, because it is me they will be dealing with. Don't get me wrong i am not blowing my own trumpet, what i mean to say is that it's like hiring a wedding photographer, you get shown pictures and you buy on those images only to find that a different photographer will be taking yours.

The same is true in our case, client A reefers me to client B who knows that the same person who did client A will be doing for them, IE they know they can expect the same everything that they have been told to expect.

I am me, and as i have said before, some people find the way i conduct myself deplorable, not wearing a suit and tie, not standing on ceremony, Hell i was even pulled up because i do not have a title on my business card just my name, I mean come on get real. Others find the way i do business a refreshing change as i speak like i do, and do what i say i will, thankfully the people that like and do business with me make my work fun.

As PHP said, its horses for courses.

:) does it make anyone else smile when they get that great bit of spam starting with, 'we have noticed you are not listed in the major directories and search engines' :cheers: where did they get my mail addy then lol

#21 mcanerin

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 03:49 PM

Hell i was even pulled up because i do not have a title on my business card just my name, I mean come on get real.


LOL - For a while at my old company I was wearing several hats. For the shareholders, I was the media technologies manager, for the lawyers, I was the intellectual property (patent) manager, and for a couple of clients, I was the "senior project manager".

So we made a decision to not put my title on the business cards. Then I went to Taiwan, where I was supposed to be "project manager" to a big optical disk drive manufacturer. I had with me 2 engineers, both with PhD's (and titles on their cards, of course).

We handed over our cards, and when I handed over mine there was a sudden hush and a lot of umm's and half bows and wringing of hands.

Turns out that in many places in Asia (which tends to put a lot on formality and hierarchy) NOT having your title on a business card means that you are so important and famous that everyone knows who you are!

They thought I was the Chairman or something and were concerned that they hadn't acted properly, and even more concerned that someone so obviously important had come over without telling them - sneaky b*stard!

Took a while to straighten out....

Ian

#22 Jill

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 03:59 PM

To find out Google's "Relevancy SERPs Algorithms" and keep abreast of their changes Analyzing the top 20 results for :
search engine optimization
have consistantly proven to be the best outlet
Since these Webmasters/SEOs are probably the most sophisticated or tactful
their html code and links gives the best analysis

SEO, if you've looked at our thread about the recent algorithm changes, Barry Lloyd is fairly certain that looking at the results for SEO related terms is not a good idea. He believes that they are treated differently in order to trick people who might think those are the ones to look at.

Could very well be judging by what's there right now.

Jill

#23 Jill

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 04:01 PM

I asked how he knew, and he said that he had a wordtracker account and was checking. He also had WPG and was running constant searches. For? You guessed it. This phrase. He was optimizing for a phrase that only he was searching for! AAAARRGH!


Actually, Ian, that's why Wordtracker is supposed to be more accurate than say Overture, because auto rank checkers aren't usually checking the databases where WT gets its results from.

So his searches may not have been actually skewing the results if he was using WT.

Jill

#24 OldWelshGuy

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 04:05 PM

Turns out that in many places in Asia (which tends to put a lot on formality and hierarchy) NOT having your title on a business card means that you are so important and famous that everyone knows who you are!

Done that, in the early 80's a private civil engineering company i worked for managed to become the sole UK agent for Mitsubishi Earthmoving equipment, they wanted to get into the Uk and we happened to be at the right plant show at the right time ;)

Anyhow long story short as i have said i had VERY poor upbringing so while good manners and politeness is ALWAYS high on my agenda, ceremony and ettiquette isnt lol.

Picture:- meet at airport 3 Japanese gentlemen all immaculate in $1000+ suits, at this time I had at least bought into the tie thing as up until then they would be used to hold my school trousers up and nothing else. So Hiroshito (who i had met previously) stepped forward and shook our hands, me? I just stepped forward and shook the other hands, well i didn't know you had to wait to be introduced did I!

Anyhow the usual Japanese thing business card offered at the same time as the hand to be shaken Just a name, no title. Me i took it, read it and promptly spouted out, in my best Welsh accent " So what do you do then?" :aloha: took a while but we all laughed it off later that evening.

#25 AussieWebmaster

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 04:22 PM

How do you measure effectiveness? I spend all day doing this for a currency trading company. We had some high SERPs when I got here but I tweaked things and now we have 65 key terms on the front page. 19 at number 1. I have managed to average 5.3% CTR at Google for 261 terms, and once I replace some of the dead wood that will increase.

We do have 1290 inbound links at Google and I hope to get that closer to the AllTheWeb number of 6900.

We are now adding foreign language sites and in a less competitive arena we should dominate Google.

My question is how much is it my efforts and how much is it we advertise at the major online sites like Forbes and Reuters and Bloomberg.

#26 mcanerin

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 07:39 PM

So his searches may not have been actually skewing the results if he was using WT.


Agreed, and good point. In his case it was because he was checking EVERY search engine fequently.... I mean, why are you checking Google.fr for a Canadian site....? Anyway, that was just him. Some people don't have a mental concept of "enough".

Of course, SEO's following G's guidelines and doing manual searches would be messing things up, as well, and I understand WPG does do a Google search on Google. I do them on AOL or Yahoo now (due to several dire warnings here :unsure: ) but I'm pretty sure most people don't have the advantage of this great forum.

Ian

#27 Jill

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 07:48 PM

Unless it's changed, WordTracker gets it's info from MetaCrawler, which I don't think WPG checks.

#28 mcanerin

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 07:55 PM

Cool. Damn, you shot down my point. :unsure:

Ian

#29 compar

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 07:55 PM

To achieve those type of rankings many of the SEO companies place a link to their site with the exact word in it - from every page they worked on. This technique lowers the keyword density of the sites they worked on, and loots pagerank from those same sites.

That's almost an unsupportable claim.

1. A two or three word anchor text is not going make any discernable difference in the keyword density of a page with any reasonable amount of content. And to my knowledge it has never been proven that keyword density is really important. How do you know that it is not simply keyword frequency?

2. An outgoing link has absolutely nothing to do with the PR of the page. So it can't possibly "loot Pagerank" from the page.

Now possibly you mean that it diminishes the page rank value passed on to all the other pages linked to and that is correct. But again one link more or less on a page isn't going to make any real difference.

Edited by compar, 21 November 2003 - 08:04 PM.


#30 Jill

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 08:07 PM

Cool. Damn, you shot down my point. :unsure:

Ian

:D That's what I live for!

Jill




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