32 replies to this topic

[Craig B]

Thanks for the responses. We have Jill's Nitty-gritty guide so that is a good start for a new SEO copywriter to read!

-Craig

[maven]

Interesting description for an SEO copywriter. I agree that the copywriter should be marketing-based and great with words first ... then learn the SEO part. Then all the copywriter has to do is think of the search engines as another target audience and write to that audience. It just means that your target is digitally driven instead of emotionally driven.

[copywriter]

Hi Maven,

Welcome!

...think of the search engines as another target audience and write to that audience. It just means that your target is digitally driven instead of emotionally driven.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that statement. The search engine is not a target audience. You aren't trying to sell to/promote to/influence the buying decision of a search engine.

Whether copywriting or SEO copywriting, the target audience is always people and the core is always emotional. Just because people begin their buying process by using a search engine does not mean their buying decisions aren't emotional.

Granted, there are some differences (many actually) in the buying process of a customer who goes to her local mall and one who opts for the 'Net. But 80% of all buying decisions are ultimately emotion-based, online or off.

So, instead thinking of the search engine as your target customer, think of the SE's "criteria" as a piece in the copywriting puzzle. With SEO copywriting, you have to include keyword placement and saturation in along with the other elements up for consideration before and during the writing.

Karon

PS - Don't you find it difficult to read all this serious talk coming from a woman with a red nose and whap-sided antlers sticking out of her head!?

[dragonlady7]

I'm finding a lot of people that are choosing to outsource things. I get outsourced work at all kinds of levels. Some people just want me to write things and they'll SEO them themselves; some people want me to write SEO'd copy; some people want me to figure out how to structure the content on the site. What people expect from their copywriter varies widely; it's not a standardized industry yet.
At my day job, I'm the in-house person responsible for EVERYTHING about the website, as well as several other huge areas of specialization. I think I'm less effective in-house; if there's something I need done, I have to learn how to do it. I don't like that as much; I'm much more comfortable being able to focus simply on the things I do well. There's a selection of them, but I'm generally pretty certain of where my boundaries are.
I'm not certain that those boundaries have been codified, however. I don't know that other SEO copywriters / writers / copywriters in general have the same boundaries. So I'm interested to follow this thread and see....

[Jill]

Welcome, Maven!

Jill

[Scottie]

Although those strategies are very important for small/medium sized sites, we normally deal with high traffic sites that already have high PR (7, 8 and 9!).

OK- I can't resist saying it...

Just because it has good traffic and high PR doesn't mean it's a good site, or that it is unique or creative or converts well. Usually, it's the big companies that are most in need of a little clever spark in their site.

Still- not what you were looking for- but something to think about.

[lisa]

Hi Craig,

From one Calgarian to another...

How much emphasis does your company place on SEO copywriting? Is this a fairly new interest?

The reason I ask is because you mentioned that your sites are already popular with high PR. Many large companies tend to ride on that alone and don't worry much about good SEO writing.

Lisa

[copywriter]

Welcome Lisa!

[Jill]

Welcome, Lisa!

Jill

[mcanerin]

Another Calgarian? Yikes!

I know it's the third most connected city in North America, but I think we have the most non-lurking members for any city on the forum so far...

Welcome! (I LOVE your domain name! Good one!)

Ian

PS Hey Jill! You think you could use your connections to get the fine folks at Search Engine Watch to hold a conference here one of these days? We have great beer and a world famous Chocolatier! What more could you ask for?

Edited by mcanerin, 04 December 2003 - 10:14 PM.

[lisa]

Wow! What a small SEO world we live in...

It would be great to have a conference here!!

[Craig B]

Just because it has good traffic and high PR doesn't mean it's a good site, or that it is unique or creative or converts well. Usually, it's the big companies that are most in need of a little clever spark in their site.

It's true that the big sites are not always unique or creative but if there is one thing they do well, it is converting. In fact, they really are converting machines. For example, a large computer manufacturer builds it's site with XML and monitors its pages and page sections on an hourly basis. If something isn't performing, the offer is yanked and a new one is put up in it's place.

So what does make a 'good site'. One that converts or one that is interesting and creative?

How much emphasis does your company place on SEO copywriting? Is this a fairly new interest?

It is difficult to be a good SEO copywriter (if there is such a thing!) when working with larger clients. The reason for this is that not only do you have to write great copy and sprinkle it with SEO keywords and phrases, you also have to get your masterpiece by legal. Most large companies have strict guidelines on what words you can include in on and off the page site elements. So keyword tradeoffs such as 'inexpensive' instead of 'cheap', 'refurbished' instead of 'used', and 'auto' instead of 'car' are commonplace.

Another Calgarian? Yikes!

Yeeehhaaaaaw! (did I just say that?)

-Craig

[mcanerin]

you also have to get your masterpiece by legal

Those darn lawyers again

Craig has a good point - if you give a company (particularly a public company) a choice between slightly odd sounding but keyword rich copy and something that makes them sound smart and professional, it's no contest - image wins.

If you give them a choice between showing up well on the SERPS and using their original copy, they will usually say - do both!

This makes it quite challenging, since often the preferred copy is designed to convert or create an image rather than score well on a density test.

So the end result is either buying ads or making everyone mad at you. And having to buy ads often makes them mad anyway.

For them, someone who can write the "image" and "conversion" copy that can also rank well is pure gold. And really, really hard to find.

I think the best bet would be to get a great copywriter and teach them SEO (or make sure they have added it to their skill set), rather than take an SEO and hope they can write copy.

You can teach anyone technique, but people are born artists. The trick is to find the natural artist (writer) and teach them the techniques.

Ian

[Scottie]

So what does make a 'good site'.  One that converts or one that is interesting and creative?

Definitely one that converts. Give people what they are looking for!

I've seen many big company websites that convert in spite of their limitations though, simply because of who they are. If it ain't broke don't fix it, just be sure it really ain't broke!

[Jill]

A true, professional copywriter who knows how to write for the search engines and the users should have no problem getting their copy by legal.

The SEO may have to be careful what keyword phrases they choose, but that's really not the copywriter's job.

If you can't choose "cheap hotels" as a keyword phrase because legal won't allow that word on the page, then simply don't choose it. It's not a copywriting issue. Just make sure to run the keyword phrases past legal first, and you should be fine.

Jill