24 replies to this topic

[zollerwagner]

Howdy,

I am wondering how to solve this problem.

My typical client is clueless about what is necessary for a Web site to be a valuable marketing tool. Most assume that having a pretty Web site is all that is necessary. If their current site isn't bringing in much business, they want to change the look and think a small amount of money thrown at the site will fix it.

Well, that's obviously rubbish, isn't it?!

My initial response has been to write up a detailed report for potential new clients. I explain how Internet marketing works, do an analysis on their site's placement in the engines, and then explain exactly what needs to be done to their site for them to get more traffic and business. (Usually this includes site architecture, copy writing, and seo optimization work.) I should say that this is generally done by email, not in person.

Sure enough, this approach often convinces them that I know what I'm talking about and that they have a problem. Maybe overwhelming detail is hard to ignore.

But...it also leaves me open to not getting paid for a substantial amount of work. Even if they like the report, they might be shocked by the price and run for cover. (I'm cheap by the standards I read about here in the forum).

There has got to be a better way. What do you suggest? How do you recommend that I convert potential customers from thinking about a cosmetic redesign to thinking about what is really required?

Thanks!

[OldWelshGuy]

Hi There zollerwagner welcome to the forum

Selling, Something i REALLY shine at, at last.

I wrote a quick article about handling objections Here it was more about a specific objection but might be worth reading as selling is selling.

Today is Friday so i have a loose time, as i actually went OUT this morning to see a new client that has been waiting for 3 months, and we set a date for end Jan lol everyone was happy.

I will write a piece on professional selling NOW, and will post the link in a short while so pop back and it will be up.

Regards

James

OWG

[zollerwagner]

That sounds great! I'll read the other one in the meanwhile. Thanks!

[bwelford]

Welcome, zollerwagner.

One theory is that you must find people with "pain" and then offer to cure the "pain". However if someone isn't aware that he is really not feeling as great as he should, then he may not realize he could feel better.

It's very tough to sell to someone who doesn't know they need anything. However behind that thought is one way you might want to open their eyes to possible ways of improving. This is an example for selling to any company that gets involved in trade shows.

If they think about their trade show activities, then they will realize that this is incredibly expensive. You may have a lot of people wandering around the show for possible new ideas. Most of them aren't interested in your product or service. They don't have any pain. If it's a good trade show for you, then you may get a number of good leads. However if you calculate the true cost per prospect, including the opportunity cost of your people who had to set up the booth, be there all the time during the show, take down the booth, travelling time, etc., then these were very expensive prospects.

Compare this with a selling-effective website. Consider only those people who come to the website via a search engine. Many of these people are searching because they have a "pain". They're looking for a cure. If you do the true accounting around the website, you will find that you can afford to spend considerable dollars on making it more selling effective. Whatever you spend, your true cost per prospect via your website will be far below your true cost per prospect via the trade show. ... and that's the truth.

[SearchRank]

My typical client is clueless about what is necessary for a Web site to be a valuable marketing tool. Most assume that having a pretty Web site is all that is necessary. If their current site isn't bringing in much business, they want to change the look and think a small amount of money thrown at the site will fix it.

Do you provide or do your clients have access to any web traffic reporting such as Web Trends? If they are able to see that they are not getting traffic to their site, it may convince them that they need to do something to bring those numbers up.

If they were getting alot of traffic but no customer acquisitions, then working on the web site itself could be a solution to their problem. But if they are getting no traffic, then having the most beautiful and functional web site in the world is not going to help them because no one is seeing it.

[OldWelshGuy]

Ok Guys, I have written the article and posted it Here it is a first draft, as i have been out to collect my 4 yr old from school and we are now off to get her a happy meal, I hope it helps you.

regards

OWG

[zollerwagner]

I appreciate the responses. Ever since I first visited the forum, I've been impressed with the kindness and intelligence of the participants--and that's been reconfirmed today!

Yes, I do analyze their current rankings for key phrases in Google, for example. That usually surprises them.

I also do a site analysis to explain what is right and what needs work in the site. That's when the hours start adding up.

Then when I put together my proposal, I do a very thorough plan of action, which takes even longer.

I don't feel good just giving all this work away, because I'm out a lot of hours if they don't agree to use my services. This is why I asked the question.


I figure there must be a better way to sell them on my services rather than handing them a road map that someone else could use to revise their site.

I like BWelford's idea of comparing possibilities for cost (but without going into great detail?)... also his idea that no pain (on the part of the client) probably means no gain (for either of us!).

How much detail do your proposals include? Is it necessary to layout your plan in advance of agreeing on price? I imagine you'd need to know your plan in some detail this for yourself, wouldn't you? Do you just not share this until you get commitment? Wouldn't the client want to see what you planned before they agree to the work?

[OldWelshGuy]

zollerwagner

My prospects get NOTHING of the detail in writing from me, if they ask for a detail quote i give them, business improvements as discussed at length on 28-11-03 to include all origination of artwork copy, images and content, content ownership will pass to xxx on payment of the sum of £xxxx or something similar.

This is why i say get out there and see them, what you are doing is telling them what they need to do, not why they need to hire YOU to do it. You need to say, hey look at me, I can make things happen, I have the vision, I have the capability, and I will do it for you, no one else, me.

If they ask for everything in writing ask them what part of what you said they did not understand, if they are still cagey then explain to them that what you have told them was given in good faith, but if you had a problem with you car, and the brake pads needed changing, you would hardly expect the garage to give you written instructions on how to fix it yourself would you?

We offer a web marketing report for free, and they do get it for free, they get ME telling them what they need to do, if they want it in writing then I tell them it will cost £199, this amount is deductable from any business they give me at anytime in the future. The worse that ever happens is that i get £199 and they get a carthorse to run their race.

[zollerwagner]

Thanks, too, for OldWelshGuy's very interesting, response.

Reading the article, it struck me that compared to the step-by-step approach you take, I'm trying to sell by handing boulders to potential clients. They're wonderful boulders but probably overwhelming! I'm probably scaring people by providing all that detail at once. (The literary folks seem to love it, though!)

I'm also interested that OldWelshGuy finds that face-to-face is much more effective. Makes sense, but that would mean a heck of a lot of travel. I'm usually many hours from clients. Perhaps phone calls would be better than paper, too.

[SearchRank]

I never give a prospective client any kind of detailed market strategy before I secure them as a client. Rather I look over their site, point out some problem areas that we can remedy and if they want more detailed info on SEO, who we are, what we do, etc., I refer them to our site which is packed full of info.

But I never give away marketing strategy because yes they will take it and use it without paying you. Or worse give it to one of your competitors who is cheaper and let them do the job. If they want a detailed analysis, charge them for it. Then if they decide to use you for SEO, you can deduct it from your normal fees.

[OldWelshGuy]

Yes face to face i mean inperson live rather than written medium, the customer needs to feel you enthusiasm

And as for the step by step approach, thats how you eat an Elephant, one sandwich at a time That is what i mean by getting their agreement and closing that section of the 'whole sale'

[mcanerin]

I usually give them enough information so that they know that there is indeed a cat in the bag, but they have no information as to what color or breed it would be.

For example, I'll give a ranking report on the keywords in their metatags, but at the same time I'll point out that ranking well on a keyword no one is searching for is a waste of time - I suggest at this point that keyword research be done in order to make certain that the site is targeting the right searchers. I DO NOT do the research though. Resist that temptation. You'll just be tempted to throw it in. And then, why hire you?

Often they will come up high on their own name, but not on their product. Naturally I point out that this is only useful for people who already know you to find you, and does not help with people who don't know you (ie new customers) who are looking for your product.

Then I'll often load up the site in Lynx and take a quick look at the nav structure. If it needs improvement, I'll just mention that the site code requires some changes for optimal performance. I don't go into to many details, though. Enough details that they know I actually looked, but not enough that they can take my report, hand it to their existing webmaster and tell him to do it.

Same with keyword density. If it's not right, I say that it's not effective, especially with the latest changes in the SE's.

I also make a point of pointing out what they have done right, and I get specific here.

I get about a 1 in 5 conversion with this, which apparently is pretty good. Personally, I won't be happy until I get a 100% conversion, but then I take pride in my work and damnit, so should everyone else

I used to work for a company that licensed out it's patents to corporations. Every time we told the client exactly how the patent worked, they started thinking about THAT, instead of what it could do for them. There was always some territorial engineer who would start insisting that he could do it a better way, or that the patent wasn't such a big deal (because it was understandable). I once spent 4 months negotiating a $60k contract because of this. And they were all upset over it.

And yet, when we showed them detailed test reports as to the effects of the patent on their product, and were close mouthed about the details of it other than proving that yes indeed we had the patents, the sales process went way better. They were now thinking about the results of the patent and what it could do for them. I helped negotiate a $9million dollar deal with Samsung in less than 2 months like this. And they were very happy.

Yes, go into details, but not on what you do. Go into details on how what you do will help the customer. There is a difference.

Ian

[SearchRank]

And as for the step by step approach, thats how you eat an Elephant, one sandwich at a time

You Welsh eat elephants? I hope you are merely using this as an example. I don't see elephants as tasting all that great!

Seriously face to face can be good for web design IMO but for SEO, I almost never meet face to face first of all because the vast majority of our clients are in a different state and sometimes in a different country and secondly I don't find it necessary to secure their business. In fact I try not to meet face to face with web design clients unless I am sure we will get the business or have already secured their business. Reason being is that in our start, I did so many face to face meetings that resulted in nothing. Now I try to bid a project to see if they will be scared away by pricing and if not, will then schedule a face to face to go over design details.

Now voice to voice for SEO works great, especially when they do a conference call and I am answering several people's questions. After I give them a quick education in SEO, they leave impressed and usually hire us.

To date, I have never meet anyone face to face by travelling to them. A couple of times someone has travelled here but not the other way around. I am not opposed to doing this but it would have to be a high dollar project and I'd have to have already secured them as a client.

[SEO-Richard]

Brilliant, OWG! I really love reading your articles

I'm aiming for local clients, and I was going to do this face to face stuff - but I was going to charge a call out charge (upfront, on the site) to a) Cut out the timewasters Focus their minds so that they had a clearer idea of what they wanted when I got there.

What do you reckon to that? Good idea / bad idea?

[OldWelshGuy]

I work locally, by local I mean within 60 miles or so, as i am 20 miles from cardiff and less than 50 from Bristol, Swansea is 6 miles away there is more work here than i can shake a stick at.

Personally I would never set a call out charge, as this may put the defenses of the customer up. But the law of charging and structure is ' charge what the market will allow at the terms th amrket dicatates' so if others charge a consultancy fee, then you could as well.

I always have taken the view of, look it is your business, all I ask is that you can give me 30 minutes of pure uninterrupted time, as it could be the biggest thing to happen to your business in a long time. I would not want you to miss out because we could not discuss things properly, my initial meeting is free, but like yourself I am a business person and time is the one thing we can not buy, so i do limit myself to 30 minutes.

I find that this normally impresses on them that I am not begging for business, I am 'allowing' them some of MY precious time, and if they don't respect it they might lose out.

Of course i do not limit myself to 30 minutes I spend about an hour researching them, their online competition etc and have notes ready to control the presentation when i get there.

I do offer a fully detailed report though that they can buy and then get someone else to implement if they can not afford for me to do the job, I would say that less than 1 in 10 take this option, and it tends to be people who bought into the concept, but simply could not justify the risk of capital outlay. Often i get people who will say that they will cut their yellow pages spend down and transfer it to online marketing, Sometimes i offer to take a larger monthly payment with no 'lump', as it is cash flow that sometimes prevents them from buying.

This was attractive to us in the early days as it meant regular monthly income while we were growing, balanced out by the odd BIG job.