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Databases And Rankings


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8 replies to this topic

#1 TerriBose

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Posted 26 November 2003 - 08:14 PM

I have a huge content website that has been created in FrontPage. I currently benefit from excellent rankings in google, yahoo and msn (within the top 5). Need to consider reworking the site in a database to better manage the vast content but don't want to undo years of hardwork. Considering pHp-post but assume it means that all my urls will change and it will effect my links (currently over 35,000 to various pages in site).

Also, I assume it will be a problem for spiders?

So, perhaps I just need a better html editor? (the frontpage includes are having a problem with the size of the site)

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Terri

Edited by scottiecl, 26 November 2003 - 08:27 PM.


#2 Scottie

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Posted 26 November 2003 - 08:30 PM

Hi Terri! :)

Welcome to the forum. You can add your site link in your signature file that appears with every post- check out My Controls and add it there.

It sounds like you definitely need a database solution for a site of that size. Make sure when you implement it that your urls don't contain more than 3 dynamic variables and that you have a custom 404 error page to catch anyone looking for outdated pages.

#3 TerriBose

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Posted 26 November 2003 - 11:26 PM

I guess that my concern is the urls will change from the existing html pages and all the exsisting links to these pages within my website will no longer be valid. It's not realistic to think that all those webmasters who have linked to me over the years will update their links to reflect the new pages.

I am right in assuming this could signifcantly effect my rankings?

--Terri

#4 Ron Carnell

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 07:56 AM

I can sure sympathize, Terri. Like you, I started with a fairly small site, just a few hundred pages, in FrontPage. Like you, I kept adding new content and, like you, I used FP includes to help manage the growth. And, yea, like you, I soon discovered the down-side to my strategy. FrontPage simply is not equipped to deal well with large sites. I think I've had relationships that didn't last quite as long as it took FP to update a 5000-page site. :)

As you've surmised, a database is definitely the way to go. I made the switch over five years ago, and have never looked back. There are some hidden assumptions about a database-driven web site, however, that need to be questioned, because those assumptions are going to color your decision.

This page, with all our posts on it, doesn't really exist, except as a series of records in a database. Every time someone asks to read this thread, the page is dynamically generated and sent directly from the underlying program to someone's web browser. It never gets written to disk as a "page." It makes a whole lot of sense to do it this way because the contents of the thread changes every time someone makes a new post to it. The content is highly dynamic, ergo the web page is dynamic.

I took a look at one of your sites, Terri, and like my old FrontPage situation, your data really isn't all that dynamic. Once you've added a new Project Sheet, the actual content probably changes very rarely, if at all. Any changes you might make would be "controlled" changes, in the sense that you control what and when, which is quite unlike this thread in a public forum. There is a hidden assumption on the web, I think, that a database-driven site necessarily results in dynamically generated pages like this one. In truth, though, this page is dynamic because the content is dynamic, not just because it comes from a database. Web sites with data that is more typically static, even if that data is held in a database, need not necessarily result in traditional dynamic pages.

Here's what I did.

All of the content on my site is stored in a relational database. I chose to work off-line, in a local DBMS (MS Access), but the same exact concepts would work equally well on-line. Each pertinent record in the database contains both a category field, which translates to a directory, and a file name. Also included is a pointer to an HTML template, which itself is composed of elements that translate very closely to your FrontPage includes. I click a button and Access churns through the database, plugging the content into templates and writing each to its own directory and file name combination. It takes about fifteen minutes to create roughly 18,000 web pages. If I make a change in a header, footer or menu, I simply recreate the whole web site.

As far as the web server, visitor, or search engine are concerned, these are all completely static HTML pages. There's a lot of advantages to that, not the least of which is that none of my pre-database links were ever broken. There are also some disadvantages, of course, but for me (and, I suspect, for you) the advantages FAR outweigh the disadvantages.

The concept of dynamically created static pages (it only sounds like an oxymoron) isn't "new" technology, by at any means. Seven or eight years ago, it was much more common on the web, but as hardware grew faster and more capable of pumping out pages on the fly, we moved in a different direction. With bell bottoms and hip huggers making a come-back, maybe it's time to revisit some old technology concepts as well. :D

#5 TerriBose

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:46 PM

Wow, thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail. I get what you are saying in concept... the technical side of it takes a bit to digest but is probably not really that difficult. I guess i could just create a report in access to compile the data which is stored in html in tables?

It seems that this should be a common issue. Doesn't anyone have a software package to manage the data WISIWIG?

I'm so glad you pointed this out to me because I would have gone off in totally the wrong direction. Thanks so much.

--Terri

#6 William Cutting

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 07:14 PM

I am wondering how many parameters you are kicking out on those pages. I too am switching over one of my sites. Right now we are pulling txt files into html pages, but we are getting 3 parameters, which i don't want. Has anyone used the software that knocks off the parameters? I am still looking for different avenues to complete this and you suggestions look like they will fit in perfectly, if the parameters are non-existent.

#7 Jill

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 07:31 PM

Welcome, Terri! :propeller:

I moved this thread to the Dynamically Generated Site Issues category. Looks like you're already getting some great advice!

Jill

#8 CGJ

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 10:40 PM

William Cutting
If i understand you are looking for URL rewriting
There are many,
For Apache
here is a link
Apache URL Rewriting Guide
For IIS Here is a link
This is a google search
Hope this helps
CGJ

#9 TerriBose

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 10:07 PM

I don't think I really am. I think Ron's suggestion is more what I need. My web site is really not dynamic. It's more static to the visitor but would be easier for me to manage like a simple database. Just would to prefer to work in WYSIWIG and have the data stored in an underlying database so text changes would be reflected across the entire web site.




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