10 replies to this topic

[Webseeker]

Soon here I'll be asking more questions about tracking conversion rates, but for now I have a question about cookies.

Let's do a scenario: Someone sees my page from a keyword search, my page comes up because I'm on a PPC campaign. They click on it and go to my site.

These software programs that one uses to track these visitors, don't they implement a cookie to track his progress?

In sales it's often said that a consumer needs to see an advertisement 7 times before committing to buy. I don't know any statistics for the online world, but let's say it's similar, in that the consumer may need to come back to the site a few times before making a purchase as they're "comparing prices". Say they come back again, and who knows how many times before, but this time it's about 4 days later and they're at my site to buy, so they do.

Am I safe to assume that the tracking software I will use tracks this buyer through the use of a cookie?

I bring this up because I use a program that helps me regulate cookies on my computer. I can see all the cookies on my machine at the click of a button. Some are automatically allowed by a pre-setting. Many are automatically blocked. In fact, I'll block all cookies if I don't need them to navigate a site.

All this leads me to another question: If others regulate the cookies on their computer as well, and I don't have a clue what percentage of surfers do, but wouldn't this slightly alter the results of the conversion rates?

I've purchased eBooks before and I knew ahead of time it was an affiliate program. I could also tell the main URL of the location of the link and instead of bypassing the affiliate number, I would just click on the link to go where the item is being sold at. I presume from clicking on that link, the tracking will give that affiliate credit for the purchase I made. Correct? I know it's yes, but what if I had cookies turned off? What if I didn't purchase right away, but came back a week later and then purchased, still had cookies off...wouldn't the affiliate lose the commission because I had cookies off?

Just trying to get feel for tracking conversion rates, but trying to understand the technicals first. Your advice would be most appreciated.

Webseeker

Edited by Webseeker, 10 April 2006 - 08:59 AM.

[torka]

These software programs that one uses to track these visitors, don't they implement a cookie to track his progress?

Some always use cookies; some never do. Some give you a choice of whether you want to use cookies or not. It depends on the particular analytics program in question.

All this leads me to another question:  If others regulate the cookies on their computer as well, and I don't have a clue what percentage of surfers do, but wouldn't this slightly alter the results of the conversion rates?

Yes, it would. And the users who have JavaScript turned off or whose user agent can't accept JavaScript (like SE spiders) don't show up on JavaScript based analysis programs. Session IDs bring with them a whole different set of issues and don't do anything to track return visitors.

Basically, there are issues with pretty much any web analytics method reasonably available to track visitor behavior. IMO, the best thing to do is not to rely so much on absolute numbers, knowing that those numbers are at best an approximation. Rather, pick an analytics program that gives you the kind of statistics you need in a format you can use, and use it for trend and comparitive analysis.

I think in the long run it's more valuable to know that your traffic is up or down X% when compared to yesterday/last month/last year/whatever, or that of the people you can measure, X% of them clicked on Link A on your page while Y% of them clicked on Link B. In the end, you're going to get more actionable information from that than from simply "knowing" that a particular page of your site got "so many" visitors today.

wouldn't the affiliate lose the commission because I had cookies off?

It's technically possible for the seller to set up a sales site that requires cookies. In other words, if you attempt to surf there without a cookie, you'll get a message that you have to enable cookies to reach the site, instead of actually viewing the site.

In real life, it would be a bit daft for a site owner to do this, since it also effectively excludes the SE spiders (who also don't accept cookies). But it is technically possible.

Of course, either way the affiliate loses the commission -- either because you arrive at the sales site "cookie-less" (without their affiliate info attached to you) or because you're turned away at the gate. So, yeah, if they're using cookies to track you, the affiliate will lose the commission if you access the sales page (or attempt to access it) without a cookie.

I would guess that most affiliates would simply consider that part of the cost of doing business and move on, since there's not much that can be done about it otherwise.

--Torka

[incrediblehelp]

I think in the long run it's more valuable to know that your traffic is up or down X% when compared to yesterday/last month/last year/whatever, or that of the people you can measure, X% of them clicked on Link A on your page while Y% of them clicked on Link B. In the end, you're going to get more actionable information from that than from simply "knowing" that a particular page of your site got "so many" visitors today.

Exactly. Once a baseline is established then you have the proper starting place to make decision based on log analytics.

[Webseeker]

Incrediblehelp, My reply was going to be similar as yours. I agree.

Torka, Thanks for the reply. The information is appreciated. However, if a site can't track a visitor's navigation or re-visits via cookies, you bring up the term "session ID'.

That leads to a another question: What is a session ID and how is that related to tracking a visitor's navigation?

Thanks,

Webseeker

[torka]

Highly non-technical explanation, as we don't use session IDs on any of my sites, so I have no first hand experience with the beast:

It's a generated unique code that's associated with the visitor when they first hit your site, which "follows" them around as they navigate the site. If the visitor leaves your site and comes back later, they get a new code (new "session" = new session ID). So they won't work for tracking return visitors in any way.

I'm sure there are many ways of passing the session ID from one page to the next, but one way that gets used probably too often is including the session ID as a parameter in the page URL.

Session IDs in the URL is a huge problem from an SEO standpoint. SEs do everything they can to avoid indexing pages that have session IDs in the URL, as this can lead to a massive duplicate content penalty. (Each time the spider visits, it gets a new session ID, which means a new URL for that page...) If webmasters are going to use session IDs in their URLs, it's imperative they detect the SE spiders and feed them the "bare" URL without the session ID.

--Torka

[Jill]

Session IDs in the URL is a huge problem from an SEO standpoint. SEs do everything they can to avoid indexing pages that have session IDs in the URL, as this can lead to a massive duplicate content penalty.

Leads to massive duplicate content, yes, but not a penalty.

It's more of a big pain because the engine will keep indexing the same content under numerous URLs and may not get the URLs you really want them to get. (The ones without any SIDs.)

[prawin]

More info on Sessions / Session IDs

for ASP
http://www.w3schools...ref_session.asp

for PHP
here is the cookie info link
http://www.w3schools...php_cookies.asp

thanks w3schools

Prawin

[torka]

Leads to massive duplicate content, yes, but not a penalty.

Whoops! How did the "p" word get in there? (Scottie, we really need that "D'oh" slappy smiley back! )

I can only plead lack of caffiene or a chocolate deficiency or something along those lines. I do really know better; I'm sure I have more than one post around here where I've told somebody else it isn't a penalty...

--Torka

[Jill]

I thought perhaps someone took over your posting privledges Torka!

[Randy]

sssssshhhhhhh

Don't give her that idea Jill. It was supposed to be a secret!

[torka]

Randy:

--Torka