90 replies to this topic

[bobmutch]

Jill: In Leanne's first post his name and company name are there.


SearchRank:
>>>>Is Denis a friend of yours, Bob?

No I don't know him and have never talked to him.

>>>But you have given him a good alibi now haven't you Bob.

Nope, I am just encouraging people to be more professional.


Any way I phone Denis and he is a real person and it was him that send the emails according to his manager. His manager [deleted] told me on the phone this morning "I don't excuse his conduct". Paul also told me that [name removed] the ower of the company said that "this method is not condoned by the company."

Further Paul told me "he is going to get canned".

When I pointed out to Paul that there were posts that this was not just a one time thing he indicated to me if those accounts of misconduct really happened he was not aware that Denis was dealing with clients in this manner and was very apologetic.

So it appears that [company name deleted] have deal with Denis, he confessed to sending the emails, and now the company has taken action and Denis will be fired.

Paul said he is available at [phone number removed] and would like to hear any other complains people may have about Dennis.

*Note: I have no business relationship with any of the above people or company. [name removed] gave me permission to post the above quotes.


[Please read our [url=http://www.highrankings.com/forum/index.php?act=boardrules]Forum Rules[/url] about outing spammy companies on this forum. In short, it's not allowed so don't post their names and phone numbers here! - Jill]

Edited by Jill, 22 March 2006 - 01:49 PM.

[Leann_Pass]

Hi Leanne,

>>>>No. In fact Jill did NOT allow Denis's full name or the url of his current site to be posted

You may need to read my post again.  I said "You have allowed Denis's name and company name" not his full name and URL.

Bob, just to set you straight, NO the company name is not posted in this forum.

Again lets just consider if perhaps it was not Denis that phoned you but his ex-girlsfriends new boyfriend for a joke to get back at him.

Now that makes all kinds of sense Bob! For at least a year Denis's ex-girlfriend's boyfriend has been spending his time and effort cold-calling and emailing unsuspecting individuals/companies to try to make money for Denis's company. Then the ex-girlfriend's boyfriend resorts to blackmail if they don't give his girlfriend's ex-boyfriend money - "for a joke to get back at him" of course! - NOW WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT??

Again: What happened to innocent until proven guilty.

I think the idea of posting about this kind of behaviour is good but I don't think it is right to post thier name or company name until you are certian. 

You know Bob, I have complete emails (in full color including the company logo) That come from "denis@companyname.com" to my client and reply emails to "denis@companyname.com" from my client - each of which also includes phone numbers.

The phone numbers in the email match up with the number he called my client from as well as the phone number listed on the WhoIs info. Cool huh??

Add that to the fact that Chip Johns dealt with this guy when he attempted to blackmail his client a year ago, I gotta tell ya 2 plus 2 does equal 4 - AND YES I AM CERTAIN.

However, what I am not certain of BOBMUTCH, is why you are so dead set on defending a scamming blackmailer - and why you commented on my blog just to insist that I remove all reference to the scamming company and Denis's name.

I think David has you pegged.

<edit/added> Seems I cross posted with you Bob. Now, I don't think that company can give you permission to post their name here - I believe that right is reserved for the owner/admin of this forum.

Edited by Leann_Pass, 22 March 2006 - 11:40 AM.

[ChipJohns]

Bobmuch,

Was I being unprofessional? I made a post based on my journalistic skills.

My facts for my post are:

1) based on a FIRST HAND account.

2) based on a VERY reputable person.

These are basic principles of proper journalism. I certainly am open to a dialogue
(discussion) and I would forthright make any corrections to my post. But I have
reported the facts in this case.

I take off my hat to you for taking such a stand, and giving a call to the
company. Maybe I could have called, but I didn't. Oh- you did, and it confirms the
facts that I reported on.

You may not agree with me, and that is ok. I do not agree with you, but I will give
thoughtful consideration to what you have said, so... thank you for your opinions. I do
not take them lightly!

Did my little post ruin their reputation? That wasn't my intentions, and, I am sure that
it didn't. I am just trying to protect would-be individuals that fall prey to this stuff
everyday. I think of the money that was “extorted,” through threats, from many,
many people who are just trying to make an honest living to take care of their family.

You may have talked to him Bobmuch, but I talked to him on the other side of the
coin. I did try to reason with him. It was my client (friend) who was losing sleep, and
who was a VICTIM here. And as I reflect on your views and think about how I may
have made the decision to push a little more, I think you need to reflect on my side
of the issue for a while. That’s all that I ask.

[bobmutch]

ChipJohns:

>>>Was I being unprofessional? I made a post based on my journalistic skills.

I consider it unprofessional not to investigate an issue and just go on what 1 or 2 people have said about some one and to post their name and the company name they work for.

>>>But I have reported the facts in this case.

Some of what was reported was facts some was hearsay. Also the fact that an email is send with your name on the email the logo in the contect is not nessaryly a fact that it was sent from the person that it claims to be sent from.

>>>Oh- you did, and it confirms the facts that I reported on.

Yes that is right. But the "facts" should have been confirmed before they were posted. They could have ended up not being the facts. I think we have all seen that happen before.

>>>Did my little post ruin their reputation?

My personal opinion is that the posts worked well although I don't agree with posting issues like this before checking out the information. If the posts had not been done Denis may of still been working at the company. I got the feel that Denis was being canned to make sure this didn't get out of hand.

You probable did the company a service by posting.

>>>You may have talked to him Bobmuch,

Na I could get though to him. I talked to his manager.

>>>And as I reflect on your views and think about how I may have made the decision to push a little more, I think you need to reflect on my side of the issue for a while.

I have and I above noted you probable did the company a favor by helping with the stir and getting him canned. But still I am for due process. I have seen things like this happen and they have turned out the other way.

Thanks for the good attitude though : )

Edited by bobmutch, 22 March 2006 - 12:31 PM.

[SearchRank]

I don't know if I completely buy the fact that the owner and manager weren't aware of this saleperson's tactics. Was he a sub-contractor? If so then maybe that could happen but if he was a direct employee, I think it is far fetched to believe that the manager and owner knew nothing about this.

[ChipJohns]

Thanks BobMuch,

I just want to make one more little point and then I am through.

Some of what was reported was facts some was hearsay.

People get the wrong idea about heresay and what is legal.

Hearsay is information received indirectly. For this fact, it is not permisible in court.

When it comes to Journalism (and the right to free speech), actually, information gathered through "hearsay" is protected by the First Amendment.

[Jill]

Jill: In Leanne's first post his name and company name are there.

WHERE???? I just don't see that company name anywhere! Can you please point out exactly where it is because I'm with you on this Bob, I have no interest in posting that information at this forum.

What the others do on their own blogs is their business, but we're not mentioning his name and company here. I definitely do not want to do that which is why it is against our Forum Rules to do so.

I will once again read Leann's first post, but I'm just not seeing it anywhere. (Going to see if I need some glasses this afternoon anyway...perhaps that will help!)

[bobmutch]

Jill:
>>>I did? Cuz if it's here somewhere, I missed it. Let me know so I can remove it.

I think I read "Website Advertising Services" on the first post and misread that as being the company. My mistake.

Leann_Pass:
>>>Bob, just to set you straight, NO the company name is not posted in this forum.

Yes you are right. I must have misread the first post.

>>>However, what I am not certain of BOBMUTCH, is why you are so dead set on defending a scamming blackmailer - and why you commented on my blog just to insist that I remove all reference to the scamming company and Denis's name.

I have not defended any thing but due process. When I posted on your site I felt more than likely Denis had done what you said he had done. But still that doesn't set aside due process. Due process makes sure that people don't get falsely accused.

I posted on your blog that you should remove the reference to Denis and the company because you had not done due process and there was remote possibility of you being wrong in your charges.

>>>I think David has you pegged.

You are wrong there.

>>>Now, I don't think that company can give you permission to post their name here - I believe that right is reserved for the owner/admin of this forum.

Jill can make the call on that one.

Thread:

Steven the owner of the company called me and inferred that his office would be calling Leann with an apology, having a staff meeting to go over employee conduct, and posting a statement on this thread.

Overall, even though due process was not used to start with, it appears that the end results of the posts may have worked out well. Denis has, or is going to be, dismissed (according to Paul his manager), and the staff at the company are all going to get a pep talk on employee conduct standards. This thread can stand as a warning for employees of SEO firm that cross the line and misuse clients.

I have a pile of clients on my plate and am really to busy to be doing this but I just went though a false accusion and had to deal with a false post by some one that didn't even puchase my service and having people believeing it. So I guess being on the wrong end of the stick I was quick to stand up for due process.

Edited by bobmutch, 22 March 2006 - 01:46 PM.

[bobmutch]

Jill:

Na its not your glasses it me. You may want to hammer the number and company name I post though. I think they can stand though as they were posted in a good light and with due process. Also Steve the owner is going to post up also. He told me he is out of town so it may be a few days.

I am going to go back to my corner now and I will post again next year : )

[Jill]

Bob, now you've really pissed me off.

I agree with most of what you said, which is why I don't allow the posting of names and companies on this forum. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. You are exactly right.

But then you went ahead and not only posted the spammy company's name, but their phone number as well.

Please don't put my forum and my livelihood in jeopardy because you got permission from the spammer to post it. You don't have my permission, and how do I even know that you really have his permission? For all I know is you want people to harrass these morons.

You come in here yelling and screaming about something that never happened, and make it happen yourself. If you ever come in here and post something like that again, a flagrant violation of our rules, you will be banned forever.

[incrediblehelp]

Am I missing something here? This thread has played out like Dennis was the one "canned" for the blackmail sales tactics, but just a little research on the company (try Google blog search) in question and you will loads of complaints about this type of sales approach. Are we to believe one guy was selling the SEO this way and it was not a company wide policy? Oh well whatever.

[ChipJohns]

Okay, my last post, i promise..

Also, the SPAM! yes! go to blogger and search for the domain name.

You will find page after page of spam, spam, spam, spam, .. It being an seo company,
the owners would have to know what is going on! There are multiple domains handling
the spam and everything. We are talking deep entrenched spammage

[webbpdx]

Hello again everybody,

Lets just cut straight to the chase and put this one in the ground. The company name was never posted here. The guys first name was. There are related blog entries from members of the board who talked about this episode, at which time they took more liberty in divulging more details about the company name, Dennis the asshat and some truly tasteful tactics in cold calling.

We can all agree that a person or individual performing such things really needs to get slapped repeatedly with a 2x4. We can all agree that innocent till proven guilty is the norm in our society. We can all agree that a sales person is indeed the face of any company as they conduct a great deal of representing the company, its services, its corporate message and the position they will take with a client. So if a McDonalds employee spits in your food, it reflects back on the employee AND Mickey D's. If a supposed SEO/SEM calls someone and says some stupid non-sense, it reflects on the company for hiring an imbecile, and then ever so ethic laden Dennis.

So his job is up on the block now. Looks like the "innocent till proven guilty" system did its work from within that companys walls, and Wonderboy Dennis got what he had coming to him. So let's take this one out back and put a slug in it... move on.. nothing to see here...

p.s. but maybe we should keep an eye out for him in the future under his own company name or some black hat company that love his style?

[Jill]

Are we to believe one guy was selling the SEO this way and it was not a company wide policy?

I don't believe it for a minute. Nor do I believe anything that Bob Mutch was told (assuming he actually called).

The company who called Leann's client to begin with SUCKS. Plain and simple.

[webbpdx]

Yes. exactly. At a level of suck unknown to most mere mortals....