92 replies to this topic

[projectphp]

Theories theories theories. They are like bums: everyone has got one.

Most people have only one or two sites. Very few people have more than that, which is why these debates start getting a bit crazy. If 100% of my sites suffer (i.e. 1 or 2), I think that means something. The fact that, of all sites, only 2% have suffered is irrelevant. Secondly, the quality of teh sites that suffer is also never raised. Have you ever read a post that started "My favourite, most relevant site in area X, site Y, has dropped. That just isn't right. Site Y is clearly the leader, with lots of really relevant information..."??? We all think our site is the most relevant, most bestest site ever, but is it really?? As Dan pointed out elsewhere, his site used to rank better than Wordtracker for keyword research. Surely that isn't right!!!

Personally, I think the filter is simply a "crap site" filter. If you build an awful site, User wont come, and if they do, they simply wont stay.

All the old rules for building a great web site survive, but maybe the SEO shortcuts have changed, from relevant to harmful.

[Jill]

So gmac, how's your making of bad sites doing? Getting all those high rankings yet?

[jvanv8]

[Merged this one into here. -Jill]

To test Google's new and improved algorithm, I decided to do a few searches to see the #1 search engine giant in action. As always, I surf the web in the shoes of the user, not a developer, programmer, computer person, or seo guy. Actaully when I surf and test I try to act like my technologically challanged mother.

Searches off the top of my head...
1st Search Term = "Web Developer"
Figuring that there are a zillion out there, the first 10 must be some sure-fire hot-shot developers!

#2 Ranking - "The Online Edition of the STARS Magazine"
Wow! This must be where all the web developer superSTARS are listed... lets go! [Opens Page] - Hmmm... its hard to get a grasp on it but it appears to be a magazine devoted to the cultural and economic woes of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Dubai and other areas in the region. I looked around for web developers but once I discovered that "Iraq's warfare fuels the global trade in looted antiquities" I forgot all about that stupid web development stuff... "hey, this is great! Where can I sign up for the peace corps?"

Keyword Notes: No cases of "web" or "developer" ANYWHERE!
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2nd Search Term - "Web Development"
Not to give up too easily, I plug in "Web Development" instead. Lets see... #2 Ranking is ""The Online Edition of the STARS..."
Errrr
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3rd Search Term - I figured I could save all the problems that I learned the Middle East was having by buying them peace and happiness. Naturally, I search for "Shopping Mall"

#8 "Green Earth"
What better place to by peace and other worldly goods for the war-torn regions of the world! [Opens Page] - Hmmm.. ok only 28 words on the page... There are no instances of "shopping" or "mall" in the source code. But hey look! They have a link stating "Wild Ferret check it out." Who cares about shopping when you can check out wild ferrets! [Opens Farret Site] - Intro text states
"Welcome To WildFerret.Com. This Site has a split personality.
Half is devoted to Ferrets
Half is devoted to Martial Arts. Currently Aikido"
- Awww cool I love Aikido, thats really what I was looking for all along.
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Keyword #4: "Martial Arts"
I want to learn more about this stuff, and maybe some farrets too.

Search Result #16 - Redirected to a message that the page is down. But the owner leaves us a plain text message saying that "New location for Danny Abramovitch's martial arts pages ... As soon as I find a reasonable location, I will transfer the content and list the URL here. 4/17/02"
I know its been over a year and a half, but I am pretty certain, and apparently so is Google, that the site will be kung foo fighting any day now.

Search Result #18 - Hey! Its the same page we got redirected to before!

Search Result #15 - "Index of /~viamedia"
Hmm... directory structure with 2 files, both of which list site and traffic logs. Strangly, the wine drinking sissys of Italy represented 1.85% of traffic while the Karate Chop land of Japan only represented 1.26%. Fascinating.
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Search Term #5
All this searching is making me hungry, how about "Japanese Food"!
With over 3,200,000 Japanese Food sites, I'm sure to get some excellent dining or take out with result #16

Search Result #16 - "This is a website that has been designed especially for kids with ... "
With what? I want to know [Opens Page] - "This is a website that has been designed especially for kids with information about the country of Japan."
No text in source code for "Food". 2 instances of "Japanese Music" though.
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Search Term #6 - You know, searching the internet is getting harder these days, maybe there's some "Computer Software" that can help.

13,600,000 Results
#3 Virtex C3ommunicator - Online Presentations Conferences Seminars - is Virtex becoming the next Microsoft? [Opens Page] No occurances of "Software". HOWEVER there IS one mention of the word "Computer". Its in their slogan - "CompInfo - the Computer Information Center".
I think I will use the Contact Us page to see if they have any good utilities for Windows XP just incase they forgot to mention it on the site.
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[Big Sigh] Well that raps up a great internet surf session. Probably unrelated but I think I am coming down with vertigo. Maybe I'll do a Google Search to learn more about it. Hey look, another Ferret site!

- John

Edited by Jill, 25 November 2003 - 12:50 AM.

[mojo]

Hi John,

I enjoyed your message! And that seems to fit in with the message I posted earlier today (under the Googledance topic) which says that I have noticed the sites that seem to be ranking highly for competitive search phrases do not have those exact phrases in their actual content.

I have only researched this for three word phrases and I have only searched for three different phrases in three different fields - so my research isn't extensive! So I posted a message to the forum to see if someone else noticed that pattern also.

But if Google are picking up on random words or a combination of words from the phrase, I would think their results will be much less relevant which seems to have been the case with your searches.

Jomo

[Mike Boxall]

Hi everyone

I'm a highrankings.com virgin so please be gentle with me

I've been through several of the Google topics now but haven't really managed to answer the question I had - do you all think the recent changes are likely to remain or has Google really messed things up this time?

The results I've been getting lately have been hopeless and just cannot be good for users. I run a site selling commercial cleaning equipment and we've managed to dominate Google for some time with keywords like pressure washers, vacuum cleaners, floor polishers etc, etc, (fortunately, terms that are not really that competitive). My technique has always been to provide lots of relevent content without going overboard with doorway pages etc and over the past 4 years we've done ok at it.

However, I noticed yesterday that we dont even rank in the top 60 for a search on our company name (Express Cleaning Supplies) let alone any of our targetted keywords.

We have over 600 pages indesed at the moment but I'm desperate to know if others are as bewildered by this change as I am? In my mind Googles results are just not very good at all using this latest algorithm.

So do any others here think they have completly messed things up this time?

[qwerty]

Welcome, Mike

Do I think they've completely messed things up? No, not really... I think they've made a business decision based on their understanding that things are going to get a lot more competitive in their business very soon.

Am I happy with it? On some searches, I'm fine. On others, nope. But my philosophy has always been to improve pages in every way I can think of, and I'm going to continue to work that way. I'll take Google's current likes and dislikes into account, but I'm not going to create something just so that it will perform well in Google.

I am, however, going to brush up on my knowledge of running AdWords accounts. I think that's going to be a very valuable skill.

[dragonlady7]

So is it true they're using high-bid Adwords phrases as a dictionary to go from in looking for over-SEO'd sites? I've already forgotten where I've heard that rumor, but it seems to me that competitive fields would indeed have high Adwords bids on their phrases...


A gutsy move, whatever else you may think of it. <_<

[gmac17]

It sounds like you think we are all just whiners - sometimes those of us that complain actually do have valid gripes.

Do a search for "hockey sticks" and have a look at the #7 ranking:

"Gym slips and hockey sticks: Philip Larkin's schoolgirl stories", wow - now that is a relevant site!!! Thank goodness all the crap was filtered out on this term, or we wouldn't be able to learn about erotic stories involving hockey sticks.

Actually, it looks like what happened here is what happened for lots of other terms - a high page rank site with the words on the page got high in the rankings despite it being completely irrelevent.

Does google owe us anything? Absolutely not, and perhaps this is just a short term adjustment. However when we spend out days working hard and these kind of results show up it is frustrating. These forums are where we are supposed to come and complain.

It is never as simple as just building a great site.

note: I had to change my username, so I am the gmac who is working on building the bad sites.

[Jill]

These forums are where we are supposed to come and complain.

Umm, no, that would be "Complaints R Us." :doh:

[qwerty]

We've all got theories. I think there's a good deal of merit to the AdWords/commercial site/hot property thing, but I'm probably never going to declare "this is it."

I'm open to ideas, and I'm sure there are plenty of things that have changed and will continue to change. The only thing that's been upsetting me in the debate about all this is that some people have latched onto a single idea, so they refuse to see any other factors as possible. My one and only declaration, therefore, is that more than one thing has changed. This cannot be boiled down to a single filter, algo change, or philosophy.

[aifnet]

The way I look at the issue, if it really is one, is I only seeing this hurting google. People want results and if Google changed the way they give us these results billions of users who were happy will now go elsewhere.

[Jill]

Google's never done. That you can be sure of.

What they're doing now is one big test. This is why the results are constantly changing from day to day. It could be months of this, just like the last time they made major changes.

They won't be done until they've accomplished what they set out to accomplish (whatever that might be), AND have relevant results.

Jill

[mopacfan]

Mike has a good point and I'm not surprised that no one has commented. He can't even find his site by searching on his company name. That is a pretty significant issue. Now I don't know what your domain is Mike, but I do know that there is definitely something wrong if you can't even find your site by something that specific.

[Mike Boxall]

Maybe I'm being stupid here but try it:

Search for Express Cleaning Supplies and the first site is a link to ours from somewhere else. Our domain www.express-cleaning-supplies.co.uk comes in on page 17!!! but what I have noticed is that this is our directory listing. It has a page rank of 5 so it's not entirely irrelevant.

As aifnet has said, surely this cant do Google any good if the results aren't as good as they were (and without being biased about it, they certainly aren't)

Jill, have your sites suffered significantly?

[Mike Boxall]

(sorry everyone - I've only just found the other main topic about all this. I think I'm losing my eyesight as well as my rankings at the moment!)