92 replies to this topic

[gstark]

I would like to hear some thoughts on how SEO's can work with the new algorithm Google has implemented.

It seems the tired but 'tied and true' SEO rules Jill laid out here will no longer suffice.

In another comment here, Jill defines three types of SEO work.

The answer for the third one - arguably the best one - won't change. As she said, 'It's about making your site be the best it can be...'.

Unfortunately the first type, the competitive keyterms type, is important to many ecommerce sites. I have several customers that sell product in a variety of fields, raging from alternative energy, to rescue equipment or home medical equipment.

The common trait they share is they are all sellers of stuff that is drop shipped by the manufacturer. Since anyone can develop a relationship with the manufacturer, it is ALWAYS the case that the best search terms are extremely competitive - often in the $2+/click category at Overture.

In the past a virtual business could be built on the search engines alone. Then came GoTo and paid results were added to the mix. Now, my customers use Overture and AdWords, but up till recently most visitors still came from simple Google searches.

In the new paradigm, that will no longer be the case because the sites that used the 'Old Tired' techniques on competitive keyterms are now banished to the hinterlands.

I hope that over the next several days we can develop a recipe that numbnuts like myself can follow.

Of course, Jill is correct, and I should try to get one of my clients to create the ulitimate site for his product - commodes - but I can't quite picture it yet.
She said single word search terms are a crap shoot and that applies here LOL!

Right now however, their business is down by 60% and they need some immediate help.

So for a start, I think I need to reduce the number of repititions of the kerterms on the page. That means the title, decsription, alt tags on liked images. body text, etc.

It would be grear to see some pages that were penalized and other, similar pages, that were not so we can develop a rule by comparing them.

[Scottie]

Whoa there, qstark!

The update isn't over yet. I've started a new project this week and reorganized the timeline- I usually optimize existing pages, then work on adding content.

Right now, I'm suggesting we do content first -resources- and wait on redoing existing pages. I really think that is the way to go. I checked rankings again today and every site I have that includes extensive resources is still #1, although they are all ecommerce sites. The online catalog sites that only sell things are nowhere to be found.

As to people setting up an affiliate agreement, a quick website and drop-shipping... well, how is that a big loss for searchers if only the manufacturer and the more creative affiliates show up? Seems the way it ought to be.

On commodes... if I were searching for one, I'd want detailed reviews because I know nothing about them. Water usage? What does that mean in terms of performance? Water savings? Easy to install? Can I do it myself? Expected lifespan? How do I get rid of the existing one?

Side by side comparison charts would be good. Maybe even real-contractors submit-your-comments type of reviews. Is it a B-to-C or B-to-B site? Makes a huge difference in the options and look and feel.

I honestly believe that building content that is useful to your users (in the industry and making a decision on your specific project) is the way to go right now.

I also think that now more than ever, it is critical to have a usable and well-marketed site so that you convert as much traffic as possible. It's not a numbers game anymore (x% will convert so I just need more traffic...). You've got to maximize your chance to sell every single visitor and keep them on your site.

[gmac17]

It appears to me that the best bet is to make my site worse and hopefully google will appreciate it more.

I need to decrease the number of incoming links.

I need to stop using my keywords and keyword phrases so often, no matter if the content is relevant.

I'm really not sure what to do - I optimized the site with good, legitimate content and traded links with other sites. Now I'm replaced with Junk.

The new results for my terms are really bad. Only one of the sites in the top 10 is an improvement, 6 are worse and 2 have remained from before.

[Scottie]

Or you can be patient and wait til the update settles down ....

[Jill]

It appears to me that the best bet is to make my site worse and hopefully google will appreciate it more.

Good idea. Let us know how it goes.

Jill

[projectphp]

It appears to me that the best bet is to make my site worse and hopefully google will appreciate it more.

Good idea. Let us know how it goes.

ROFL!!!

Personally, i think the best bet is to keep on keeping on, and err severely on the side of caution. If you planned on launching pages, launch them. If you planned on releasing a new product, release it. Life goes on, and people will keep searching. The sky is not falling, there is no major reason to panic, just a need to relax and see what happens. In times like these, rather than stressing, it is important to do something productive. Find someone who will send you more traffic (AKA link Building), write more pages, make sure your taxes are in order, make sure your receipts are all filed. Business, even online, is about more than a number one ranking on Google, so go do all that stuff you have waited months to do, and come back to all this when the mess has cleared.

[gmac17]

Sounds good, I'll let you know how "operation junk" goes..... :tooth:

[Leann_Pass]

Sounds good, I'll let you know how "operation junk" goes.....

Come Come NOW!! Chin UP! Make it better, better, better!

Mike, my husband/partner/programer, has been working on 'ideas' for his site (it exists but it's not good) for years...literally. The problem has always been that he is so busy working on other people's stuff, be it a development project or a crashed computer, that he has never put his ideas anywhere exept in his notebook....ya know, the paying work comes first sort of thing....well....

With all this going on with the SERPS there has been a bit of reflection .... he and I put everything aside and decided to go through that notebook of his. His talents are awesome and his ideas are too, he has a ton to offer in the development world! (Some of them I didn't even know he had speculated!)

Instead of ditching or at least putting off his much needed work on his own site, we decided together to set a goal of getting so many (xx) things marked off his notebook each week....it may take forever, but all good sites do become a constant work in progress.

We are planning on doing a great deal of work on this over the holiday....mind OFF SERPS and hands off tweaking.

I am betting his site will be the best we have. I can't wait till it gets to the point where we can show it off!

Have a Happy Thanksgiving week and don't touch your site.....Do something creative and fun instead =)

Edited by Leann_Pass, 24 November 2003 - 12:52 AM.

[Jill]

Ahh...finally someone who's getting it.

Jill

[gstark]

Well, it sure looks like the change is here to stay. There may be subtle ongoing tweaking but the general thrust is apparent and unlikely to change much, IMHO.

Somwhere I read that most searches are informational in nature rather than commerce related. I think that for competitive terms commerce sites dominated the SERPs prior to this change.

Now other types of sites do and that's ok... it's probably better for searchers.

It is clear that catalog sites - where the keywords get repeated often dynamically are at a serious disadvantage in the new algorithm. I cannot imagine that will change much.

I understand that it is early to try to suss out the new scheme, but sites that are being heavily penalized have no reason to wait - they might as well start now and hope that the guesses are good.

So for the moment for me, the game is to figure out when the penalties kick in so as to avoid them.

I am not an SEO, I just build shops. I have another to do starting today. I am going to have to guess at the rule set and hope for the best.

[BrianR]

Personally, i think the best bet is to keep on keeping on, and err severely on the side of caution. If you planned on launching pages, launch them. If you planned on releasing a new product, release it. Life goes on, and people will keep searching. The sky is not falling, there is no major reason to panic, just a need to relax and see what happens. In times like these, rather than stressing, it is important to do something productive. Find someone who will send you more traffic (AKA link Building), write more pages, make sure your taxes are in order, make sure your receipts are all filed. Business, even online, is about more than a number one ranking on Google, so go do all that stuff you have waited months to do, and come back to all this when the mess has cleared.

Now THERE'S a thing!

I normally find myself disagreeing with projectphp, but I have to say that I endorse what he says above 100%.

I must be getting soft in my old age...

BrianR

[Jill]

I normally find myself disagreeing with projectphp, but I have to say that I endorse what he says above 100%.

What! You normally disagree with PHP? I almost always agree with him. You must normally disagree with me too? (I'm sure it happens on occasion )

J

[DanThies]

My plan for the "new Google:"

Step 1. Don't panic and don't change any of my content.
Step 2. Keep trying to get more directories to list my sites.
Step 3. Keep promoting my sites within the community of related sites.

Hey, that was my plan for the old Google too.

[projectphp]

I had one site that has suffered BIG TIME. A 90% drop in traffic.

Ya know what?? That site is one F#$*&^% aweful piece of doggy dodo. It was a miracle I ever got that dog rankings at al, and an even bigger miracle it ever generated any business (although I am not really sure it ever did!!!) IMHO, this site hardly deserved any of its rankings, ever. Whats more, its removal from many of the SERPs it was in is a blessing for the poor users that ended up at it.

Good thing is, next time the sites Marketing-Manager-who-knows-all calls me and says "what happenned" I am just going to say, very slowly and clearly so that he hears me, "Google now penalises sites that offer users no real value. Unfortunately, your site has little or no useful content, and is so busy selling, ineffectively I might add, that it just wont rank. Have you considered doing AdWords???"

From the sites I look after, all the sites I am proud of, that provide good, quality, relevant information about their area of business, are flying. The one site that didn't got bitten.

Lesson learned, time to move on and see if things can't be fixed.

[gmac17]

Word on the street is that there is a keyword filter for certain terrms that cancels the benefits of some key things such as h1 tags, keyword in domain, incoming links etc.

From what I can tell the theory holds up.....

we may have entered a whole new world of google.