62 replies to this topic

[randfish]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Split from another thread. Rand's comments below started the discussion on "link bait"

I have to solidly disagree with Michael here. Linkbait is the future of SEO. Create content that will get Dugg, get on del.icio.us/popular, get linked to by Boing Boing, Lifehacker, Slashdot, etc. and victory in the SERPs is yours (assuming you do it right).

Linkbait is simply intelligent use of content, creativity and your own knowledge of what's popular and getting links from popular places right now on the web. It's the ultimate form of serving the link-motivated portion of the web's readers.

I won't touch a contract without a linkbait component right now because I know that if we include that piece, we'll have success (visitors, links and rankings) and if we don't, we rely on the very unreliable aspects of solid content and the long term hoep that folks start linking.

Edited by Debra, 18 February 2006 - 04:35 PM.

[Jill]

Linkbait is simply intelligent use of content, creativity and your own knowledge of what's popular and getting links from popular places right now on the web. It's the ultimate form of serving the link-motivated portion of the web's readers.

Although I am loathe to use the term linkbait, it is exactly what we've been talking about here for ages. But without the del.icio.us component.

Like I said before, it's all about creativity.

[Debra]

Linkbait is the future of SEO. Create content that will get Dugg, get on del.icio.us/popular, get linked to by Boing Boing, Lifehacker, Slashdot, etc. and victory in the SERPs is yours (assuming you do it right).

I don't know Rand, I think it's a little much to suggest the future of SEO rests on the simple tactic of "link baiting" Hate to think our industry will come down to who can write a better line of crap.

I haven't spent any time on Lifehacker, but the rest of those tagging sites are more for the technical/seo/design industries wouldn't you say? What about the other 50 million sites out there not in our niche?

Not to rub the top toad the wrong way but statements like "That's only because you're not being creative enough." don't really contribute anything, or help anybody.

I didn't take Jill's comment to be anything negative arlen, more "think about it". And she's right in that regard. People get so frustrated or hung up on looking for single solutions when it comes to link building they forget to look at the common sense approaches. Being creative certainly is a way to do that.

BathGem, let's look at your comment here:

And links, without link bait articles, are hard to come by unless you pay or are some kind of superstore seller

.

In addition to writing your articles, have you thought about writing..... white papers, FAQ, testimonials, reviews, reports, surveys, focus groups, case studies, histories, tests, or product/service comparisons? Each of those "papers" potentially targets a different set of people but all provide credible information about the services you sell. Think about the different places you can submit this information to but even better, how it provides authority when you add it all to your site.

But don't stop there! Once all that great new credible content is added to your site, think about doing a major media blitz to annouce it's formation. You might be a smaller site - but you can make SUPERSTORE noise if you have the right stuff.

[Michael Martinez]

I have to solidly disagree with Michael here. Linkbait is the future of SEO.

You will change your mind once you see everyone chasing the perfect link-bait formula.

Anything that can be abused will be abused, no matter how great and useful it seems in the beginning.

The future of SEO will rest with innovative ideas, as it always has. Link bait was innovative for a week. Now everyone is talking about it.

Been there, bought the t-shirt.

[Debra]

Anything that can be abused will be abused, no matter how great and useful it seems in the beginning.

The future of SEO will rest with innovative ideas, as it always has. Link bait was innovative for a week. Now everyone is talking about it.

Sorry, no. The name is new, the concept isn't. Since this tactic attracts links naturally, it's an answer to what the engines want. And since the last easy link method is under fire at the moment, (buying links) this has become the new thing.

It's timeless marketing, case in point:

http://forums.search...read.php?t=3089 12-03-2004

....In my case, the type of link work I'm doing now and what I used to do 18 months/two years ago is TOTALLY different. Gone are the days of sending link requests to swap or add links. Now I broker more link promotional deals, or construct viral link campaigns, so the need for the typical link letter is gone...........

[Michael Martinez]

Sorry, no.  The name is new, the concept isn't.

Actually, the concept is new because it is now gift-wrapped in a brand-new shiny package that says, "Here is another formula for success that no one has touted before."

It's not just the name that is new, it's the encapsulation of the concept in a formulaic buzzword that is new.

This is exactly how SEO gets stranded on the sand bars of buzzwords. People look at what inspires the buzzword and say, "Hey, I've been doing that for years!"

Yes, they have, but they haven't been doing it in a formulaic fashion.

Now Rand, whom I respect very much, is only taking on clients who have something buzzworthy. He has adopted Mike Grehan's Winneristic approach to SEO: don't take on anyone doomed to failure.

Rand's client base will probably have few if any future Sandbox problems, because he's applying Mike Grehan's well-established principle of only working with people who are the cream de la cream.

Unfortunately, that means that our superstar SEOs are more like cookie-cutter SEOs who just happen to use only the best quality pre-made cookie dough, who only use the most up-to-date computer-timed ovens, and who only use the most intricate and expensive cookie cutters.

They turn out some darned impressive cookies. Most people won't ever turn out those kinds of cookies. They won't have the right kind of ingredients and tools. But Rand and Mike don't have to be master chefs because they've got the latest Super-Cookie Whizmaster in their kitchens and not everyone else has paid their $50 to get one of the last packages in inventory.

Don't get me wrong. There is much to be said for using the same recipes, ingredients, and ovens over and over again. Would you want your favorite pizzeria to suddenly change ingredients right before you walk in for lunch? Of course not.

But standardization increases productivity for anyone who is willing to settle on it. And what a high quality SEO like Rand Fishkin or Mike Grehan can use, so can any quality SEO use -- and that includes the spammers.

They will use linkbait, they will automate it, they will paint it up, they will slap it out faster than Mom and Pop, and they will abuse the tar out of it just like they have abused the tar out of so many other things.

And the day will come in the not-so-distant future when people will start posting articles in forums that begin with:

"I'm looking for some high quality linkbait. I want to target the X,Y,Z community and use the linkbait to build a great new site that introduces innovative ideas and concepts on a regular basis."

And the standard replies will be variations on:

"You and everyone else, Buckwheat. The line starts back there."

[DanThies]

Rand,

I'm struggling to grasp what's new about the idea of creating something buzzworthy... It's like some ignorant SEO accidentally picked up an issue of Wired from 1995 or something, and "got an idea."

Linkbait is the future of SEO.

[Scottie]

Throw my hat in with the people who think "linkbait" is something new. It's what we've been talking about for years- creating content that attracts links.

I could post a couple dozen references from as far back as 2002 that I am aware of where the #1 thing recommended for a site was to make it link worthy by creating unique, desirable copy or applications or tools.

But now it's a "new concept" because it's got a "quick fix" name like "link bait" that makes it sound like a special trick instead of simply good business.

I think that's a sad comment on what gets people excited.

[DanThies]

I could post a couple dozen references from as far back as 2002 that I am aware of where the #1 thing recommended for a site was to make it link worthy by creating unique, desirable copy or applications or tools.

But now it's a "new concept" because it's got a "quick fix" name like "link bait" that makes it sound like a special trick instead of simply good business.

I wonder if they're really talking about something that's WORTH linking to... because if they are, that's, um, as old as the WWW... goes back a lot further than 2002... as does "calling attention to yourself," which every infant does without even thinking about it.

Maybe they're talking about creating something that will attract links without actually being worth linking to? You know, like dumping your trash on the lawn for a couple years until CNN finally covers the story of how your neighbors are now screaming for the death penalty. That's also nothing new, of course.

[Scottie]

The ultimate linkbait is committing crimes. It's instant popularity!

[Jill]

Well before 2002. I know I talked about it as far back as 2000 and I would imagine long before that as well.

Maybe they're talking about creating something that will attract links without actually being worth linking to?

Yes, Dan some are. There was a post by a well-known link broker recently trying to start a contest on how to get link bait to his spammy blogs about debt consolidation.

I swear to god i thought i would

[Scottie]

My only comment about 2002 is that's when I got into SEO and it was already a popular concept. Not that 2002 is when it was invented.

[Debra]

Actually, the concept is new because it is now gift-wrapped in a brand-new shiny package that says, "Here is another formula for success that no one has touted before."

Nope. Just because it has a differnt name doesn't change the concept. It was viral marketing then, it's viral marketing now.

This is exactly how SEO gets stranded on the sand bars of buzzwords. People look at what inspires the buzzword and say, "Hey, I've been doing that for years!"
Yes, they have, but they haven't been doing it in a formulaic fashion.

The bold is mine.

Who is "they"?? And how do you know what "they" have been doing?

"I'm looking for some high quality linkbait. I want to target the X,Y,Z community and use the linkbait to build a great new site that introduces innovative ideas and concepts on a regular basis."

And somehow this is bad?

[Ron Carnell]

Can you define what you mean by "common" for me?

Oh, wait, that was a different thread, and I already got poked in the eye for that one.

Seriously, this is, I think, one of those times we're likely using the same words but different meanings. Rand said, "I won't touch a contract without a linkbait component right now," which to me implies something different than simply "good content." I think that implication is strengthened by the use of the word "linkbait" in other contexts elsewhere, and especially with the alternative that Rand apparently offers to linkbait. " ... (otherwise) we rely on the very unreliable aspects of solid content and the long term hoep that folks start linking."

Everything Rand said, and everything I've seen elsewhere, leaves me thinking that linkbait is just the newest synonym for shortcut.

[lyn]

Linkbait is simply intelligent use of content, creativity and your own knowledge...

In my vast ignorance, I inadvertently used "link bait" in another context recently, but what I had in mind was exactly what Rand describes. I think, at root, it's a terrific concept that pushes web marketers to work a little harder for their share of the audience. Off the web, all kinds of marketers are pursuing another coined term - "value added" - that pushes them to improve services and do more for the customer that differentiates from competitors. "Linkbait" won't work if it's just bolt-on content created for its own sake - it has to be content that's on topic and adds real value for visitors.

L.