Hmmm, ya think it's settled? Looks like the Title tag is back in it's glory, as it should be. I see that they've tweaked things a bit.
Relevancy looks much better on the few SERPs I just checked.
Jill
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Google: November Algo Update-dance
Started by
powerofeyes
, Nov 15 2003 02:30 PM
1402 replies to this topic
#467
MakeMeTop
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 07:09 PM
I hope they are. Not seeing it here yet though.
#468
ImVickieB
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 07:17 PM
Once this portion of the change if over, what do you think the chances of them setting off a new batch of changes are as I am still seeing the spam sites showing up highly ranked?
#469
Peter
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 07:28 PM
Once this portion of the change if over, what do you think the chances of them setting off a new batch of changes are as I am still seeing the spam sites showing up highly ranked?
Please, please show an example?
Peter
#470
ImVickieB
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 07:33 PM
Here ya go Peter,
I just posted on a different thread and will copy it here -
"You would think that they would try tweaking the algo so the problem would be fixed instead of fixing it for a single case.
http://www.google.co...=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
It looks like the algo change did NOTHING to hurt these spammers and their listings. The company, the 6 (!!) pages of listings redirect to, covets a top spot for the search term "pregnancy tests" now when they didn't were not ranked for that term at all before the changes occurred. It would appear that google kicked legit sites out of the top listings and the spammers still won.
You can't say that those results are relevant for the term searched for.
Yeah, I know. Sour Grapes."
I just posted on a different thread and will copy it here -
"You would think that they would try tweaking the algo so the problem would be fixed instead of fixing it for a single case.
http://www.google.co...=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
It looks like the algo change did NOTHING to hurt these spammers and their listings. The company, the 6 (!!) pages of listings redirect to, covets a top spot for the search term "pregnancy tests" now when they didn't were not ranked for that term at all before the changes occurred. It would appear that google kicked legit sites out of the top listings and the spammers still won.
You can't say that those results are relevant for the term searched for.
Yeah, I know. Sour Grapes."
#471
ImVickieB
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 07:48 PM
Oh, and here is another one - http://www.google.co... pregnancy test I am sure there are probably 50 other terms where this is also the case.You know, I totally stand behind what google had to do. The results were getting to be absolutely horrendous, but dammit all, if you are going to knock my legit site out of the top listings, please make sure you get the people who DESERVE to be gone also!
#472
Peter
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 07:48 PM
Yep you are right,.. this SERP really seems spammed,... even though they are all affiliate sites and not exactly the same.
However,.. the new algorithm / philosophy isn't necessarily made to get rid of the spammers,... but to improve the over all results (all of them,. not just a few) and these things happened before the update too,.. so blaming Google for not catching all the spam is a totally different subject,.. wouldn't even be fair I think.
Spammers will always exist and there will always be people that figure out a way to trick the search engines. As long as spam doesn't rule the results that is acceptable. I know some people will be upset with me now,.. but common sense dictates that it isn't possible to get it all perfect.
Trains, planes, busses,.. they don't always arrive on time, but as long as 90% does, we believe it is a good service, even though nobody likes to be on one of those 10%.
With this change,. Google will continue to rule the search engine world, and make it even more difficult for the others to compete with them. They have secured their future for at least a year.
Peter
However,.. the new algorithm / philosophy isn't necessarily made to get rid of the spammers,... but to improve the over all results (all of them,. not just a few) and these things happened before the update too,.. so blaming Google for not catching all the spam is a totally different subject,.. wouldn't even be fair I think.
Spammers will always exist and there will always be people that figure out a way to trick the search engines. As long as spam doesn't rule the results that is acceptable. I know some people will be upset with me now,.. but common sense dictates that it isn't possible to get it all perfect.
Trains, planes, busses,.. they don't always arrive on time, but as long as 90% does, we believe it is a good service, even though nobody likes to be on one of those 10%.
With this change,. Google will continue to rule the search engine world, and make it even more difficult for the others to compete with them. They have secured their future for at least a year.
Peter
#473
powerofeyes
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 07:50 PM
Hello Vickie,
I think we discussed the same example in a different thread. As I would say the algo which was prior to this update cannot detect cloaking script that is relevant to the site they are redirected.
Here is a part of the code of the cloaked script from your example,
you rarely see a repetation of key phrases there. This is accepted by Googlebot for a long time. And I dont think there is any spam filter to remove these stuff(even in the current algo update). Just send the example to google they will work out on this,
VIJAY.
I think we discussed the same example in a different thread. As I would say the algo which was prior to this update cannot detect cloaking script that is relevant to the site they are redirected.
Here is a part of the code of the cloaked script from your example,
<HEAD>
<TITLE>home pregnancy test comparison</TITLE>
<meta http-equiv="KEYWORDS" content="home pregnancy test comparison">
<meta http-equiv="DESCRIPTION" content="home pregnancy test comparison ">
<META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<script>
url_redir ="[URL REMOVED]"
window.location = url_redir;
</script>
</HEAD>
<body bgcolor="#000099" text="#FF0000" link="#FFFF00" vlink="#FFCC00" alink="#FFCC00">
<H1 align="center"><font size="7">home pregnancy test comparison</font></H1>
<br>
<br>
<h1>
<font size="3">
home pregnancy test comparison antibody bone menus result cheeks hydroxycut cheating sports houston PREG resturant coconut pressue handling lives nonstress danger induced still home pregnancy test comparison zone drugstore latter veterinarian homeopathy he after preejaculation alyzer motivation igg checker chemo building prepare syringe specificity professional baby's intoxication home pregnancy test comparison bad siskiyou risk tes cricket medmira o pediatric requirements amphetamine cat porgans stomachs jar thigh bitch price mid failed plaster home pregnancy test comparison zinc canine e cookbook calculaate liquor mental psylocibin injections will inadmissable components minute india items trial combinations download breakfasts stream home pregnancy test comparison eater dilauded dingell bite wi count chat vessels unhealthy royal raytech wedding gong legs associated fallopian refills b doctor cyclobenzaprine home pregnancy test comparison dryers cd connecticut diagnosing like golfer's introduction creat code clearplan ask ur suggestions child michigan know guarana coaches reading automated home pregnancy test comparison circuit playboycom's cdc tmdab ii her vitasoul authority ex exams relevance safely ami conception disappearing winsor drugstorecom sd manufactures slimsuit home pregnancy test comparison lifeaid pooh senior pot nuclear herb months instruction bc challenging colour triad walking pressures bonein halhen cycles bleach poem dreambody home pregnancy test comparison amer am insitute fact ambulatory interfering subsiding until b during africa measuring dj navy transmission movie hear worldcouk kansas fiber home pregnancy test comparison i'm tested obgyn tax stories trainer ptd trials colorado supplement skin levison weekly hepatits ligation drive router calculator fee od home pregnancy test comparison analyzers storm calculating movie ten
you rarely see a repetation of key phrases there. This is accepted by Googlebot for a long time. And I dont think there is any spam filter to remove these stuff(even in the current algo update). Just send the example to google they will work out on this,
VIJAY.
Edited by Jill, 22 November 2003 - 10:47 PM.
#474
Peter
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 07:54 PM
PS.
I know spam really S@&$,... but besides the complaining,.. also try to beat all those spam sites,.. you still can get better results than they do.
Go submit your site to all the directories you can find (there are hundreds of them),.. not just for link popularity purposes,.. but also to get more sources of visitors.
Adding a link to 50+ directories will give you an increase of at least 10% in visitors,.. generally targeted visitors.
Work also on links from other sites,... they also give you visitors,.. We all want to sit on the first row for a dime,. but fact is,. the first row is the most expensive row. Not necessarilly in $$$$ but also in time,.. invest lots of time in link building and you will get many more visitors,.. and as a side effect,.. better rankings in Google,.
Peter
I know spam really S@&$,... but besides the complaining,.. also try to beat all those spam sites,.. you still can get better results than they do.
Go submit your site to all the directories you can find (there are hundreds of them),.. not just for link popularity purposes,.. but also to get more sources of visitors.
Adding a link to 50+ directories will give you an increase of at least 10% in visitors,.. generally targeted visitors.
Work also on links from other sites,... they also give you visitors,.. We all want to sit on the first row for a dime,. but fact is,. the first row is the most expensive row. Not necessarilly in $$$$ but also in time,.. invest lots of time in link building and you will get many more visitors,.. and as a side effect,.. better rankings in Google,.
Peter
#475
ImVickieB
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:00 PM
Okay fair enough, but due to all this spam, the site it redirects to has top listings now for many major terms. That doesn't seem particularly fair or right. Ill gotten gains and all.
As for the affiliate sites, if you look, the only "sites" that are part of this affiliate program, which by the way wasn't even active on their website when the results started showing up about a month or so ago, are all from the same set of domain names. It is just a clever way around the algo and google rules.
As for getting it perfect, I am not asking for perfect, I am asking for fair and there is a difference. I will take my demotions in ranking like a woman
and work at getting back up there but allowing blatant spamming like this to go REWARDED (which it was with this algo change) is just inconceivable.
As for the affiliate sites, if you look, the only "sites" that are part of this affiliate program, which by the way wasn't even active on their website when the results started showing up about a month or so ago, are all from the same set of domain names. It is just a clever way around the algo and google rules.
As for getting it perfect, I am not asking for perfect, I am asking for fair and there is a difference. I will take my demotions in ranking like a woman
and work at getting back up there but allowing blatant spamming like this to go REWARDED (which it was with this algo change) is just inconceivable.
#476
SEO-Richard
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:17 PM
Hey, Vijay, can you tell me how you caught that code? I'm getting redirected pretty quickly, I press STOP, view Source, I only get the top redirect URL, not all that nice keyword stuff.
How do you do it?
How do you do it?
#477
ImVickieB
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:19 PM
In order to see it, you need to disable javascript in your browser.
Regards,
Vickie
Regards,
Vickie
#478
Shep
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:21 PM
I greatly enjoy this forum and especially this thread. I have been lurking for a long time but I am still new enough to SEO that I seldom have wise remarks. I will give you a few comments for your consideration.
For a long time I was trying to rank higher on one particular key phrase. About the best I could manage was about 100-150 in SERPs. A few months back I redid my page and placed my key phrase in every H1 and H2. The next time the page was updated it was not found in SERPs except for the home page. A few minutes ago I typed key phrase -dajklsd and was shocked to find it in top 10. If I found that in a regular SERPs, I would nearly have a heart attach. The good news is that I am very near top in above regional keyword phrase. In my opinion the regional key phrase has far more value anyway. While checking my log files, I noticed that length of visit is about three times longer on my state keyword phrase than in keyword phrase by itself.
Now to a slightly different note. About two weeks a ago I discovered a website that was ranking very high on a lot of key phrases. While checking backlinks, I discovered that the webmaster had key phrase links on footer on most of his websites to his other websites. As far as I could tell everything was above board. NO hidden links or text or other "spammy stuff". It seemed like it was following google's guidelines. I was about ready to do the same thing. After all, who can argue with what methods that have results in the SERPs. It did not seem quite right but it worked none the less.
I checked the same SERPs after this update started and that website is nowhere to be found for the keywords that I followed. (He is still doing OK on some of his keywords.) The webmaster also had a page on his SEO website describing his ranking in google. For some reason those pages are not available anymore.
Lessons learned in last week.
1. It seems you can over optimize a webpage by placing key phrase too often in text and headers. My guess is that google has done this for some time but with this update has considerably lowered the over optimization threshold.
2. Just because something appears to work today in google does not guarantee that it will work in future. If it feels spammy, it is likely that google will penalize the method in future. Jill, it is finally sinking into my thick head.
3. I have a lot of learning to do yet.
I find Makemetop and Jill's post especially helpful in this thread.
For a long time I was trying to rank higher on one particular key phrase. About the best I could manage was about 100-150 in SERPs. A few months back I redid my page and placed my key phrase in every H1 and H2. The next time the page was updated it was not found in SERPs except for the home page. A few minutes ago I typed key phrase -dajklsd and was shocked to find it in top 10. If I found that in a regular SERPs, I would nearly have a heart attach. The good news is that I am very near top in above regional keyword phrase. In my opinion the regional key phrase has far more value anyway. While checking my log files, I noticed that length of visit is about three times longer on my state keyword phrase than in keyword phrase by itself.
Now to a slightly different note. About two weeks a ago I discovered a website that was ranking very high on a lot of key phrases. While checking backlinks, I discovered that the webmaster had key phrase links on footer on most of his websites to his other websites. As far as I could tell everything was above board. NO hidden links or text or other "spammy stuff". It seemed like it was following google's guidelines. I was about ready to do the same thing. After all, who can argue with what methods that have results in the SERPs. It did not seem quite right but it worked none the less.
I checked the same SERPs after this update started and that website is nowhere to be found for the keywords that I followed. (He is still doing OK on some of his keywords.) The webmaster also had a page on his SEO website describing his ranking in google. For some reason those pages are not available anymore.
Lessons learned in last week.
1. It seems you can over optimize a webpage by placing key phrase too often in text and headers. My guess is that google has done this for some time but with this update has considerably lowered the over optimization threshold.
2. Just because something appears to work today in google does not guarantee that it will work in future. If it feels spammy, it is likely that google will penalize the method in future. Jill, it is finally sinking into my thick head.
3. I have a lot of learning to do yet.
I find Makemetop and Jill's post especially helpful in this thread.
#479
SEO-Richard
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:24 PM
<In order to see it, you need to disable javascript in your browser.
Aha!
Many thanks!
Aha!
Many thanks!
#480
Peter
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 08:39 PM
My guess is that google has done this for some time but with this update has considerably lowered the over optimization threshold.
I still think that is a symptom,.. not the real cause.
over-optimization is just a nice word for spam if you ask me. Perhaps unintentional spam,. but still spam.
There is no treshold for keyword density,.. sometimes 2 % is too much, sometimes 5% is too much,.. sometimes 2% is not enough.
It doesn't matter,... all evidence point in the direction of a new philosophy of what is relevant to a searcher. A big change in philosophy!
Peter
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