1402 replies to this topic

[catfishjack]

I am new to this forum as yesterday one of our listings completly disappeared from the Google Index on a highly competitive keyword where it has ranked either 1-2-or 3 for the past 2 years? I'm shocked to say the least and can already see the traffic loss? Is there anything you can do, will this change? Our other returned listings took no rise or reduction??

[chinook]

Well I got safely through dominic/esmeralda and was looking good for this one until yesterday when we all of a sudden went invisible. Since there seems nothing to do about it and even on wmw the interest in google is fading (helped along with a lot of censorship), I propose a competition to identify some of the stupidest results coming from the big G! Here is my contribution:

Search term: calgary web hosting ( I know another Calgary thing)

Search result #32:
Calgary Home To Office Cleaners: Professional Residential and ...
calgary.netfirms. com Calgary Home To Office Cleaners. ... Outside and Patios.
Load Dishwasher. Trash Removal. In the Calgary Herald and Calgary Sun Newspapers. ...
Description: Cleans carpets to upholstery and offices to medical clinics. Offers list of services, free quote request...

[Scottie]

Welcome Webconcept, Catfishjack and Chinook!

If I missed anyone, my apologies. Glad to have you all as members!

[chinook]

Thanks Scottiecl! Some may remember me from other forums. Well gotto go back to loading the dishwasher!

[Scottie]

I do remember you from other forums- glad you decided to join us too!

[Peter]

just for keeping the discussion alive:

Any ideas on the meta keyword tag? Are the pages dropped filled with keywords in the meta keyword tag? (and the others not?)

I have no time to investigate it,.. but perhaps someone does?

Peter

[Jill]

I doubt it, Peter, since Google ignores that tag and all...

[Leann_Pass]

ajeshnair Posted: Nov 21 2003, 01:21 AM 
Leann_Pass..................When this is going to end??????????
You got #1 for "Optimizing Websites for Success!".

ajeshnair, this almost makes my point (although I was just being silly when I said it!).....optimizing websites for success is not in my titles, not in my links, not in my meta tags, only used 2 times on a page with A LOT of text. Unfortunately it is not a phrase that would bring much traffic either! So not so lucky by having it at the top.

When will this end? I don't know. I am not certain it will to be honest.....but too soon to tell.

[Peter]

Yes I know Jill,

But who knows,.. they might be using it again to figure something out.

Ah well,. it is just a long shot,...

I´m looking for things that all pages that have been dropped, have in common, rather than comparing them with the sites that show up new. It´s pretty obvious that those sites are given some kind of advantage. And since it seems to be random, rather than the same over the whole line, it kind of has to be something on the page that makes those pages loose their ranks for certain keyword phrases.

It seems that things are changing every day in this update, but when I hear everyting correctly,.. it is every time new sites that seem to be effected, as if Google is going through the whole index relatively slow, updating site by site.

Perhaps a new factor that needs to be added to each index file, right after a crawl,.. which makes me wonder,..

does everybody notice deeper crawls ?

Peter

[MakeMeTop]

It is not new sites!

I've just had sites over 5 years old go over the edge today.

One had no additional SEO work done since 2000 and ranked in the top for a killer phrase for years. Now it's history - mainly because the domain name had the keyword in it with links accordingly IMHO.

They are still turning the knob, as far as I can see, up and hopefully down.

We'll see. But they are not done with this yet!

[tree]

Hi Peter,

I've noticed a few strange things.

A number of our pages have dropped for highly competitive keywords, but gone up on less competitive ones (this is for the same page).

The PR on a couple of websites keeps changing (moving from a 5 to a 6 and back).

The backlinks haven't been updated yet.

The number of sites competing (as in googles 'of about xxx,000 sites) for less competitive words is more than for comtetitive words (so it could be 180,000 for a competitive phrase, when it used to be 2 million). It's like they ignored several million websites.

For a number of searches in my area, the results of an ask jeeves search for that phrase (as in www.ask.co.uk/ res.asp etc.) show up in the top 10, with Lycos et al just outside. It's like google is saying 'our results are broken, try somewhere else'!

I think I should join the others in the pub.

[Peter]

mainly because the domain name had the keyword in it with links accordingly IMHO.

It is very unlikely that that would be it. There are many honest sites that have keywords in the domain name. It can't be that just because of that.

I´m afraid there is no simple explanation,.. and knowing Google,... they don't do simple things,... they are pretty good in what they do because they use complex algorithms that look at many factors, and above all, I think, how those different factors combine.

Peter

[Leann_Pass]

MakeMeTop,

I agree that the backlinks text and internal link text is killing sites off (some not all). It seems if sites (some not all) APPEAR to be optimized........POOF! I have, like everyone else I am sure, been studying this.

Interesting study (a non-spam site)....webuildpages.com........remains constant in top rankings for top keyword phrases across the board. The changes he made on Nov. 13 are as follows.....#1 removed his links from his clients sites (they no longer show up as backlinks), #2 removed his clients and virtually all other links from his site #3 incorporated GoogleBot No Index, No Follow, No Archive to his tag!

Google now still ranks this site steady OR up for all its major keyword phrases even though it NOW does not even show a cache or a meta description (as of yesterday) or his actual site title (they show the title from the directory as of yesterday).

His backlinks have been cut about in half, or less....quality links are left in droves but not nearly what they used to be. PR remains 8..which is no surprise.

As of a few minutes ago he went to
#1 for website designer,
remains at #4 for internet marketing,
#3 marketing consultant,
#1 seo services,
#1 internet marketing consultant

The list goes on and on for top keyword phrases...........

Untouched by G even though G cannot even crawl it....

Perhaps, BECAUSE G can't crawl it ????????????????

What do you guys think of that?

I find this PARTICULARLY interesting.

[The Fish Lake Flash]

I've noticed a back and forth on results, when sometimes they're changed, and sometimes they are as they were for a long time which could be a particular data center update. The changed newer results are all over the board. A wide variety. If you were trying to find something specific in a search, you would have frustration because you get less relevant results of a targeted phrase. What have searchers been told for a long time now? Narrow your search by using targeted phrases! It might be an adwords ploy. Get them buying adwords, targeted adwords! I have found adwords to be much less effective than I thought. In fact we reduced our adwords budget in half and it didn't affect our business one bit. The adwords emperor has no clothes, or maybe just a string bikini wedged tightly between desperate business owners and clueless searchers. "Barely" effective.

I for one am going to wait it out, BUT in the meantime I'm doing more. More, I say!Full speed ahead.

Come on Microsoft, you've got influencial people waiting for an alternative!

[MakeMeTop]

>There are many honest sites that have keywords in the domain name..

Yep - and a load of them have gone!

Even my own site. I have (for years) come up top for the phrase make me top as 3 words on Google. A pretty silly phrase, not optimised for, of no consequence and of no interest to me. But it does return millions of results.

Looking at Google's cache indicated that the exact phrase occured only in links coming in to me. As of this update, bye-bye. I have a well optimised site and a preponderance of incoming links for what Google thinks is a competitive phrase. Hey presto, trip the filter and go away.

Although I may well be wrong, apart from SEO phrases, I haven't found an area I deal with where this hasn't wiped out a significant number of sites, either through overt optimisation - but nothing everyone hasn't been saying to do for years for Google or unintentionally tripping the optimisation filter. But only for competitive phrases.

One area I deal with is for a company that provides shelving. Unfortunately their bricks and mortar business is called xxxxx shelving supplies. They, and all their competitors, who also had company names including the word shelving have gone from the .co.uk results. Instead we have sites about the ideal way to organise library shelving, a couple of articles about the shelving of the ferry to Sri Lanka and (of course) dealtime and kelcoo.

Another company called lingerie xxxxxx has ranked for years for the phrase lingerie. Now not in the top 1000. Nothing done apart from having an unfortunate name in a competitive industry, as far as Google is concerned.

However, as I have always believed that Google was always playing the "be nice" game, before delivering the message - pay to play if you are a commercial site, after everyone is dependant on them, nothing shocks me here. Turning the ratchet on commercial sites makes total sense to me and if I were them I would be a bit frustrated at the millions being made by SEOs gaming their search engine which could be spent on AdWords.

But then, I have always been a bit of a cynic and feel safer when I know the ground rules. These are starting to become clearer and clearer

However, I still feel they are going to turn down the knob - the results are getting pretty funny. Unless, of course, they want users to use AdWords for commercial results and have their natural listing seen as research material

I am just waiting for PFI and feeds to start on a CPC basis. They know I'll be lining up like many other SEOs, wallet in hand

I can't wait