45 replies to this topic

[Jill]

Graywolf over at Threadwatch posted a bunch of links to Matt Cutts' blog where he was asking for feedback from webmasters and SEOs.

I took a look and was really kinda sickened and saddened by some of the comments. What is wrong with the new breed of SEO today? They no longer like the hunt? They want the algo handed to them on a silver platter, and basically expect Matt to give it to them?

To me, the whole point and fun of SEO is figuring it out for yourself. If someone has to tell you how to do it, well blech...how boring.

At TW I wrote:

What's with the new generation of SEOs who want Google to do their job for them? They want Google to tell them everything. If you need Google to tell you how to SEO, what's spam and what's not, you are no kind of SEO at all, imo.

But it seems like it would be a good discussion for here as well. What do you think?

The main thread I looked at at MC's blog was:

Feedback: Communication/Goodwill in 2006?

[Scottie]

I kind of like the idea.

Matt can give out a roadmap of exactly what to do. Then all the formula SEO's will be equal and the creative marketers will still win.

Really, aren't the basics pretty clear already? Is someone supposed to give out the magic keyword density, the exact number of links from X number of PR(x) sites that it will take to hit #1?

There is nothing in life that I can think of where exceptional success is achieved by following a formula.

[Jill]

They wanna know when they're penalized and stuff too. Umm...why? If you're not spamming, you don't have to worry about being penalized. And if you're worried about it, then stop spamming for goodness sakes!

[projectphp]

If everyone knows exactly the same stuff, the best will still win. Reverse SE logic that I like

[Cameron Olthuis]

Jill, I think you said it best at TW where you said "you are no kind of SEO at all".

You hit the nail on the head. I believe the comments you are referencing are not from real SEO's, yet from those that either want to be an SEO or maybe they got lucky once in their life and got a good ranking and now consider themselves SEOs when they're not.

The comments are probably from the same types of people who believe in get rick quick programs. They don't believe in playing a game to win, they just want the automatic win without any effort.

I don't think any real SEO would be asking Matt questions publicly on his blog. They would either

a. Already know the answer or

b. The question is so difficult they probably wouldn't ask it publicly because they know they wouldn't get an answer.

[Jill]

Yep, I agree C.O.

Not to mention that a good portion of what MC says publicly is just propaganda and smokescreens anyway!

But this is a scary proposition to think about all these people who *think* they're SEOs and they read MC's site like it's the bible! Scary, scary, scary indeed!

[qwerty]

Scary, but hardly new. I've only been in the business for about 5 years, but I noticed early on that people would make forum posts basically saying they were professional SEOs and they didn't have the vaguest idea of how to do the job. For example, this past week's HR Advisor:

I am looking to start an SEO company in the UK. I am looking to set up a
call centre and take on work in order to optimize sites for clients. At this
stage I am learning HTML, and have started Dreamweaver tutorials. After
which I intend to go to a SEO training course.

I'd say the problem is, and has been, that people who imagine they want to be SEOs choose to call themselves SEOs before they even start learning.

[Randy]

Same old, same old in my book. Especially when something is relatively new to the masses.

Where the Internet is concerned, the same goes for Designers, Hosts, System Administrators, Programmers, etc, etc, etc, etc.

It's just a buyer beware world. Unfortunately, the buyers don't realize this tiny fact.

If you think the SEO world is bad, you should dabble in the Hosting/SysAdmin or Programing markets some day Jill. Believe it or not, I help a lot more people in these two areas than I do with SEO schtuff. And you already know how active I am on the SEO front.

[Jill]

What's scarier is that I recognize some of the names commenting at MC's blog, and they are indeed "established" SEOs.

Go figure.

On a similar note, did anyone read Danny's post about Being a Big Voice in SEO?

It was about the various generations of SEOs that we've had in the past 10 or 11 years since it's been an industry.

In terms of generations, I think we're into a third if not fourth generation at this point. I'll put myself in the first generation. When I first starting covering SEO and search in 1996, there weren't many others. Webmaster T was out there, John Heard I think was doing stuff for Planet Ocean at that point, Northern Web had a now defunct set of search engine tips and maybe Fredrick Marckini had his ebook going that year.

Not long after that, maybe it was 1997, we had the I-Search mailing list get going I think. Detlev Johnson certainly made a name for himself in moderating it, as did Marshall Simmonds. Shari Thurow was a regular participant who grew through that. Cat Seda the same. I think both Jill Whalen and Heather Lloyd Martin were also active participants, but certainly when they kicked off their RankWrite newsletter, that helped grow their stature. And Chris Sherman in his pre-SEW days was plugging away over at the Mining Co/About.com.

[braindead]

Not to mention that a good portion of what MC says publicly is just propaganda and smokescreens anyway!

Are you suggesting that he's lying? I don't see him lying. I think he may try to lead people to believe that G's spam filters are more effective than they actually are, but I cannot take any single sentence he's written and say, "that's 100% incorrect".

[Jill]

Well, I've talked about this in a few other threads, and no, I don't really think he's out and out lying. But there's a fine line between propaganda and lying. Let's just say he seems to sometimes either stretch the truth or say things that he would like to be true, but aren't quite yet.

[braindead]

Well, I've talked about this in a few other threads, and no, I don't really think he's out and out lying. But there's a fine line between propaganda and lying.  Let's just say he seems to sometimes either stretch the truth or say things that he would like to be true, but aren't quite yet.

If I didn't know better Jill, I'd say you were married to an attorney, the way you phrase that.

[projectphp]

The beauty of good propoganda isn't that it is untrue, it is that it isn't the whole story. "It is alleged that civilians died in the bombings, but many casualities where soldiers". Not untrue, and it is never denied that civilians died, but by changing the empasis to downplay a "bad" truth (civilians died), whilst promoting a "good" truth (soldiers died), the message is clear. Next time you see a war report, see how many times civilian casulties are either shown, or the numbers mentioned. It is never denied that they die, but no facts are ever supplied either. That is some "good" (as in effective) use of propoganda.

Untrue propoganda is just poorly constructed and is inevitably found out and fails. A seed of half a truth is simply a much better approach IMHO

Personally, I can see why commenting on Monsenior Cutts blog makes sense, but not to ask questions, only to make pointed comments. "lier lier pants on fire" certainly hasn't been said enough

But asking for help? Come on! That is like emailing the taxman and asking "I want to reduce my tax bill, can you tell me how?"

Besides which, tell me that this isn't gold?

[Jill]

Was there a particular post you found to be gold, Mike?

[davidfromraleigh]

Since this is my first post ever, I hope that I'm in line. This is the first forum that I've joined. I have spent almost 2 years studying SEO, reading forums, practicing SEO techniques and speaking in the NC Community College system about good SEO techniques and bad ones. Now, I'm finally getting paid to do SEO. I agree with Jill's comment on "figuring it out for yourself." The challenge and fun part of SEO for me is having to use my brain to figure things out and to be creative. Jill, your site and newsletter have been a big help and an inspiration to me during my preparation process.