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Same Content Different Keyword
Posted 12 November 2003 - 10:59 PM
Posted 12 November 2003 - 11:05 PM
The page was, I believe, #2 for its main keyword phrase in Google.
My hope is that at some point sites like that will get dropped because of practices like this, but I don't know if it's something the SEs would consider a problem at all.
Posted 13 November 2003 - 04:49 AM
Posted 13 November 2003 - 04:55 AM
Lets say i have a painting and decorating company that i Franchise out to to others in different towns. All the companies provide the same identical service, but in a geographical area, they are ALL independent operators, and as a franchiser i would give them all the same website aimed at their geographical area.
Is that spam? well no it cant be can it.
So IMO this is where we hit a grey area, and lets take a closer to home example, lets say i sell shoes, but i sell wedding shoes as well as ski boots, if i sell to a tight geographical area then a LOT of my copy is going to be the same on each page.
I think i take a stand FIRMLY on the fence on this one
Posted 13 November 2003 - 05:45 AM
On the one hand, I see what they're getting at. It's an ecommerce website. They want it to show up fairly for keyword keyword. But people aren't searching for information about keyword keyword. They just want to know where to buy one. So writing an essay on the history of keyword keyword is... moot. Just put some text that's readable, and pull them into your fabulous shopping cart / contact page / etcetera.
I don't know. It's not deceptive; humans are meant to read it. But it's not going to stand up to careful scrutiny either. But, it's not meant to.
I'll join OWG on the fence-- he sounds comfy there.
Posted 13 November 2003 - 07:34 AM
Edited by ldcdc, 13 November 2003 - 07:42 AM.
Posted 14 November 2003 - 05:50 AM
Does the visitor know that there is a page VERY similar to the one they are reading for brown ski boots, when they are looking for ivory wedding shoes? does it matter to them so long as 'their' page is relevant?
I have got off the fence and decided that provided the above is true then there is no wrongdoing IMO. (plus the fence was hurting my bottom)
Posted 14 November 2003 - 06:19 AM
As OWG said , if a product is available in multiple localities then its not unreasonable to plug in the geo info for that page. It may not be the most interesting of websites to wade through, but if it serves its users and enables it to be found in the index then I dont think its a bad thing.
Unfortunately, if a website owner selling products in various areas just had a 5 page website with a page somewhere that said we serve all these <list of areas> and sell these <list of product varieties> then for a specific area or product search the likelihood is that they'd never be found. By calibrating each page to a specific you are giving people on target content, that they may of otherwise not found.
Posted 14 November 2003 - 09:20 AM
We have done this many times back in the day when creating new pages optimized for a particular keyword was effective. Now it no longer is but the much better option is to optimize existing sub pages. At any rate, many of those near-duplicate pages did quite well but one particular client had their site penalized by Inktomi. These pages were not your typical text only ugly ol doorway page but rather were part of the site's overall structure and were even linked into the site. However, they used very similiar content with just a keyword chnaged here and there such as you are referring to.
To date nothing has worked to remove the penalty. The near-duplicate pages were removed long ago, the sub pages of the site were optimized and we have even made inquiry to Inktomi about this but there still remains a penalty to this day. The client is now considering whether they should set up a new domain for the sole purpose of getting positioned in Inktomi.
To summarize this - just because others are getting away with questionable techniques doesn't mean you will. It is a chance you will take if you go in that direction. IMO, the penalties are to extreme if you are caught and therefore I advise to avoid any thing that could even be considered a spam trick at all costs. It is my belief that those who cheat the system and do well now, will not experience long term success because they too will eventually be caught.
Posted 14 November 2003 - 11:37 AM
I think changing the location on the same content is pretty unprofessional and won't convert if visitors see that you have done that. If I work in Atlanta and optimize pages for Marietta, Smyrna, Lawrenceville, and Decatur because those areas are all in my delivery area, fine. I can set up delivery info pages for those words.
Because I work from home and can work for anyone in the world, should I set up localized pages for every major city in the world? Wouldn't take me long- a page of content and a database merge would do it in under an hour. Is that spammy? IMO, yes.
Intent, intent. Hard for an SE to judge but fairly easy for users to see.
Posted 14 November 2003 - 11:57 AM
As scottie points out, it would be pretty easy to spit out 10 or 10,000 pages of nearly identical text - oh, oh, and lets link them all together...
Obviously a problem.
BUT, sometimes the relevant content is just the darn address and product. That's all. If I want to find out where the nearest McDonalds is I just want to type in Mcdonalds + my location and get an answer, not an essay.
But the algos make it very hard for a page like that to show up - in this case, you end up fixing it through "spamming" by adding content! Wierd, but true.
I wish I had a magic formula for when this practice moves from legit to spam.
As a rule of thumb (thinking on the fly here - feel free to shoot it down)
Perhaps if you have a legitimate geographic connection, then it's tentatively ok, but if in reality your connection isn't geographic, but virtual or secondary, then it wouldn't be.
I'd like to make it stronger than that, but I can't. For example, it's entirely possible for someone in India to decide to focus on the market in Brazil legitimately. Learn the culture, arrange for shipping fees, etc.
Maybe a better analogy would be an link request email. If the person really did visit your site, and truly thinks that it's a good fit, and didn't just blast 4.2 million people, then I'd call that legit, even if it does turn out to be unwelcome. There is a true connection, of a sort.
My opinion, as usual
Posted 14 November 2003 - 12:09 PM
Too heavy for me on a Friday evening after5pm
Posted 14 November 2003 - 12:21 PM
I agree that a place like McD's or whatever would have a tough time of it. Yes, they could try to come up with a local essay or blurb for every single one of dozens of locations in each city, but it would be difficult, expensive, and probably annoying to many visitors. This is a time when some degree of duplication or location listing would be appropriate.
Better yet, it would be great if there was a location: feature in G or somewhere else that would make this easier. How to stop spammers from using it would be an issue, though.
No good answers. I do know that the recent duplication detection patent isn't likly to catch it. That doesn't mean some other algo won't, but G seems to be looking for duplication based on keywords and the text around it, rather than the whole content of the page.
Posted 14 November 2003 - 12:27 PM
It does come down to what the user thinks. If the user is going to find these duplicate pages and be turned off by them, you're doing yourself a disservice.
If the SEs are going to penalize for it, that's even more worrying.
It sounds risky to me from both standpoints.
So... I'll sit sorta next to the fence, where it's a little more comfy and not so... lonely.
Posted 14 November 2003 - 12:37 PM
I think the more informative the text, the less spammy it would be. In short, rather than talking about all this wonderful (keyword rich) stuff you can do for them on each page, it would be better for the location pages to be short, to the point, and linked to by a wonderful keyword rich page.
Unfortunatley, that only works in low volume, low competition areas.
"I can't define spam, but I know it when I see it"
Ian McAnerin, swiping and altering someone elses quote in turn
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