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Can Google Detect Crossing Links?!
Posted 14 December 2005 - 04:33 AM
Posted 14 December 2005 - 07:00 AM
Can they detect them? Sure. It wouldn't even be all that difficult from the computing side of things. Google is big on link relationships yanno.
How deep? As deep as they feel like going.
Do they? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not. It wouldn't surprise me if they don't look for that kind of things.
Frankly, things would be much better if everybody would simply stop trying to fool the engines and build their site to be good for visitors. There's no need to fool anybody if you have built a truly worthy site.
Posted 14 December 2005 - 10:47 AM
Yep, then it wouldn't matter what Google could detect or not.
Oh, and welcome redhits!
Posted 14 December 2005 - 04:47 PM
Very well said!!
SEO is not about tricking the search engines, its about building a quality product that offers value to users.
I actually hate the term SEO. Sure there's small things you can do "behind the scenes" that can help a little with your rankings, but the way you really get good solid rankings that last is by optimizing for the user, not the search engine.
Posted 03 February 2006 - 04:12 AM
Better for who? Better for the big Search Engines... not the small webmaster.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Building a quality site will NOT bring you rankings and traffic. Like it or not... SEO does involve manipulating (tricking) the SE algorithms to get rankings.
I realize my first post might not be received well here on the forum... but I just could not sit back and see another post about "build a quality site for users" or my other pet peeve type post... "content is king".
The original question was "Can Google Detect Crossing Links". My advice to him is to not use the closed type linking methods A-B-C-A. But using an open A-B-C method, without the return link to A, will work fine.
You also want to make sure each site is located on a separate class-c IP address range... each site should be using different DNS servers. And for an added layer of protection, make sure your Whois information is different among the sites.
In my opinion, we could all learn a lot if we would just answer the questions of what works and what doesn't. Don't give out the same answers that the big Search Engines want you to say... like "optimize sites for the user".
Sorry had to rant,
Posted 03 February 2006 - 04:44 AM
Yes, Google detects cross link exchanges among sites.
Posted 03 February 2006 - 06:14 AM
Sometimes I despair...
It's just that sort of comment that gives SEO a bad name...
You only need to try and trick search engines if you have poor quality content.
Content is, and always has been, KING !!!
Posted 03 February 2006 - 09:46 AM
Sorry, but I'm going to have to categorically disagree with everything you've said. If you really believe all of that you may be in the wrong place.
For myself, I could personally care less what's good for the Big (or otherwise) search engines. I do however care what's good for webmasters since I am one. It's how I make my living.
I'll go you one better...
Not only do I stand by my statements above 100%, I've got the bank account(s) to back up the notion that building sites that are good for Visitors and forgetting about trying to fool the search engines with silly linking arrangements works wonderfully well. <insert smilie of a little guy with money falling out of the sky>
Better yet, my sites stand up over time because I don't ever have to worry about the engines catching up with nefarious stuff that worked last year but doesn't now.
You're free to do it your way, just as I'm free to do it mine. The difference being that mine is time tested and doesn't require chasing anything that the engines decide to do. You, on the other hand, are going to have to constantly change your tactics because the engines are in fact getting smarter almost every day.
Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:00 AM
So, what specifically do you find objectionable about creating a good quality site that does an effective job of converting visitors to customers?
BTW, for those who may not know my "history," in my "day job" I'm the webmaster for a small to mid-sized company (fewer than 100 employees). We follow nothing but the basic strategies outlined here on this board. We haven't tried in any way to trick anybody -- not the search engines, not our customers, not our business partners. IMO, basing a business on trickery -- any aspect of the business -- is a very risky tactic with a huge possibility of backfiring.
It's just not the way I like to do business, particularly not if I plan to stay in business for the long term.
I have pursued no cross-linking schemes. Heck, I haven't even really done much of anything about link building at all. With only one or two exceptions (a couple of directory listings) what we've got, we've got because other people decided to link to us on their own because they found our site valuable.
Instead, I've concentrated on making our site easy to use, ensuring it offers complete and accurate information about our products, worked on beefing up the copywriting to include appropriate calls to action... you know, all that wacky "content" stuff that the algo-chasers and link-schemers like to think is so worthless.
And you know what? Despite our lack of "trickery," despite not even making an attempt to reverse engineer even one SE's algo, despite my concentration on usability and content -- or could it be, maybe, it's actually because of these things? -- we've got a nice assortment of #1 rankings and a big ol' pile of top 10's, we're considered an "authority site" by Google for at least six search terms I've found so far, our traffic is up at least 75% over a year ago (250% compared with two years ago), our conversion rate is well ahead of industry standards, and we're making considerably more money with our ecommerce site than management had anticipated.
The best part is, since it's all based on solid business principles, we've come through every update in every major SE for the past two years with at worst no loss of traffic or rankings -- and often as not we find we get more traffic and better rankings as the result of an update.
So, I don't just advocate this forum's approach on a theoretical basis. I'm living it every day, and I can tell you from experience, it works just fine, even for a small webmaster.
Edited by torka, 03 February 2006 - 10:26 AM.
Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:44 AM
Fooling the search engines will get you dropped from the listings, so it's certainly not better for the Webmaster. For every site you see that you feel has been getting away with it, I assure you there are many more you don't see that didn't get away with it. Spam sites are like cockroaches. You don't see them all.
I've never seen quality fail to get noticed. Quality is not "my site". Quality is doing something better than everyone else or something no one else is doing or more than everyone is doing, etc.
Then you picked the wrong forum. If you want vindication for your belief that fooling the search engines is the way to do things, there are forums out there where other people share that philosophy and exchange ideas on how to fool them.
You got the most accurate answer anyone in the SEO industry can give you. Can Google do this? Yes. Do they do it? No one outside of Google knows for sure.
There is no other way to accurately, truthfully, and honestly answer the question.
Well, that's just B.S. Google couldn't care about class-C IP addressing. It sounds like you've bought into all the nonsense being propagated about LocalRank and Hilltop. If you ignore anyone and anything who makes a point based on those names, you'll find you're miles ahead of the crowd.
Accepting that when you ask for advice you won't necessarily hear back what you hope to hear will help you learn even more.
Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:55 AM
Oops...someone better tell that to Google so they can downgrade my listing.
Posted 03 February 2006 - 04:58 PM
The original poster asked a good question. Yes, Google can detect it... but at what level is the detection? Cross linking your sites can be a great way to boast your rankings… and it can be good for the user if the content is related.
The big guys get away with cross linking their sites… the small guys get penalize (if they don't do it right). There is a total double standard here.
I think this forum/site has some great information and I don't mean any disrespect by posting an alternate view. Don't judge me just because I might be a little more gray-hat than you. What some people think is trickery or fooling... can be basic SEO for others.
Posted 03 February 2006 - 05:12 PM
However, I just cannot help but comment on tricking the search engines, poor site, yada yada post.
Randy, Jill and Torka are all credible and they know there stuff pretty well.
Since I instruct all of the State of North Carolina on Good SEO/Bad SEO Good Design/Bad Design, I wonder if I should take back my comments to 26 adults last night in my class. Advice like, "If any company guarantees you Top 10 rankings, RUN." "Don't use hidden text." "Don't break the rules or trick the engines." Instead, I gave them advice like "Find a niche, do keyword research, discovery your target audience, find your USP and more." But one key point that I made is "Write good compelling copy written for human beings not the search engines and don't get hung up on rankings."
I wonder if I should have told one of my clients who got taken for $12,000 of his retirement nest egg because some sucker company sold him on pie in the sky that didn't make him a dime.
No I don't have to wonder. I'm sticking with the right way: "Content is King" and all that other stuff that many of us care about on this forum. I couldn't sleep at night knowing that someone paid me their hard earned money and I used tricks that could get them banned anyday. Nor would I care to risk any of my own sites getting banned.
I make a good living online and offline in this business FOLLOWING THE RULES.
Man...It felt good to say that stuff.
As for the original post, I'm going to agree with Randy's first post and stop now.
Posted 03 February 2006 - 05:25 PM
No kidding. Who here ever said otherwise?
Which is why we are so adamant about teaching them that there are other, better, more long-term ways of doing things.
Posted 03 February 2006 - 05:27 PM
I agree that it will help with getting repeat visitors (maybe even a bookmark) and make it easier to get incoming links. But for the sake of the SE's analyzing a page... content is NOT king. Also, for getting clicks on advertisements, content is NOT king.
My goal is to make money from contextual advertisements on my site. And based on my thorough testing, low quality content will bring in more clicks than really good content. Nothing is better than an Adsense Ad embedded in some low quality content. The user starts reading and realizes the page is not that good and can't wait to see the first outgoing link to click away. That click is money in the bank.
As far as building communities... repeat visitors don't really bring in as much money from advertisements as the first time visitors. They start to develop a higher level of Ad Blindness each time they return to a site. And forum sites are about the worst converting sites of all. Give me that visitor that finds my site from the SERPs and I'll have him clicking on my Ads in no time.
I agree with everyone on this... if you are an SEO consultant being paid by another company to analyze or work on their site, don't use any questionable techniques.
Personally, I don't want to deal with the typical customer that expects the world for next to nothing and all the other hassles you have to deal with when consulting. There are easier ways to make good money with some decent SEM skills.
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