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I Hate My Job

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#76 mcanerin


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Posted 07 August 2003 - 11:47 PM

This is the third time I've tried to write this - I keep deleting the whole post and starting over. I think it's because I want to say so much that I'm not able to say anything well. This time I'm going to stick to one topic and save the rest for another post if it kills me :hmm:

This post is on the difference between employees and employers.

First, there are several types of people that enter the workforce, and they tend to enter at different places. For example, I worked at a warehouse once - great pay, benifits etc. I HATED IT. It was so totally wrong for me I don't know where to begin. The monotony? My fellow employees? The fact that I was actually expected to drop everything for a coffee break (Why can't I finish this order, then go?). The fact that my fellow employees lived for overtime and couldn't care less about the business? The widespread theft? And this was in a well-regarded place! I'd hate to be in a dump. Frankly, the suggestions and opinions from these people very much mirrored markets views on how employees think.

Then I got into a different field. Actually, lots of different fields (my resume has been described as "eclectic"). And I noticed that most of the employees in my prefered fields were actually people I could relate to. To be honest, if my boss made a statement like market did at one of those jobs it would have received (and rightly so) jeers and condemnation. But I really do agree that he's right on the money for most warehouse (and presumably detail work) employees.

Basically, don't automatically think that everyone at your office or work is like everyone at every other place. It sounds nice, but it's wrong. Education levels, industry pay, turnover, traditions, unions, and all sorts of other things can make for very different work environments.

#77 Ron Carnell

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 05:29 AM

Basically, don't automatically think that everyone at your office or work is like everyone at every other place. It sounds nice, but it's wrong. Education levels, industry pay, turnover, traditions, unions, and all sorts of other things can make for very different work environments.

Absolutely true. And in some industries, I agree that a few of those points can be huge obstacles. But in no industry I've ever seen are those obstacles impossible to overcome. Regardless of your business, your employees have one very important thing in common with every other employee in the civilized world -- at some point, they had to go through some sort of hiring process.

I think market seeker's link is particularly relevant, because I completely agree that it describes pretty much the kind of employee we would all like to see. So? Go hire them!

Yea, I know. It's not always that easy, especially if the company has already been doing it wrong for a while. In another thread, I wrote about the "culture" that arises within any company, and everything I said about a desirable culture becoming pervasive is equally true of an undesirable culture. It can be hard to make changes. But it's not impossible.

When I was in food service, I tried very hard to never hire a cook or server who didn't also have the potential to be a manager someday. I worked with them, mentored them, and saw a surprisingly large number of them quickly move up in the ranks. Not always with our company, either. Did that help them? I'd like to think so. Did it help me? It landed me a job as Director of Training and eventually as Director of Operations. What goes around, comes around. As DO, I set a strict policy to always promote from within, and every one of our 18 managers had the potential to take my job away from me. We had the best people in the industry, first because we set our standards high, and second, because having the best people in the industry always attracts the best people in the industry.

Later, when I started my own software house, I followed the same path. Slightly over forty percent of all the programmers I hired in our twelve-year history went on to form their own company. In many instances, they became my competition. And I helped most of them do it, first by encouraging and training them while they were with me, and second by offering advice and even leads after they left me. Not a single one of those off-shoot companies ever failed, but each of them knew they had a job waiting for them if worst came to worst. I never felt cheated, because my employees always gave more than they received. Like the kids I raised, I was always happy to have them living under my roof, but I was equally happy to see them getting married and prospering on their own.

Oh, yea. When my dad got sick six years ago and I sold the business to move back to Michigan, would it surprise anyone to hear I sold it to a former employee? :notworthy:

And the pattern still continues. Most of my web sites center on writing, and in five years, I've managed to attract some pretty awesome people. Every one of them knows if they start their own site, I'll send them some traffic. Every one of them knows if they publish a book, I'll help them sell it. I've written references so they can get better jobs, and I've sent them leads when a business contacts me to write copy (since I don't do that work). Just as in the past, I always seem to get more out of my people than I can ever return.

Just as an aside, the only reason I'm in these forums today is because I saw much the same thing happen recently with Jill.

I don't have anything to sell here, and in truth, I don't have a lot to offer either, except perhaps moral support. But I've been participating at the cre8asite forums for several months, at first because an old friend from an earlier forum at JimWorld was there, and latter because of newer friends. When Jill recently stepped down from an Admin position at cre8asite to form these forums, I saw nothing but encouragement and sheer delight from everyone involved.

I figure, those are the kind of people I like to be around. :lmao:

#78 Jill


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Posted 08 August 2003 - 09:54 AM

I figure, those are the kind of people I like to be around.

Me too! :lmao:


#79 sheriw


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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:00 PM

Hi, I've read with great interest the posts in this thread, and to be honest, admire a lot of the courage in those who are:
-staying in jobs that aren't their first choice, but know that earning income is important
-branching out into new careers, even teaching themselves new skills
-starting out on their own.
Not everyone can have the job they "love" but we can all have the boss we love: ourselves. Even in an office filled with people around us who annoy us, we don't have to be "workers" if we realize that first and foremost, we're working for ourselves.
We just happen to be clocking in for someone else, and agreeing to their schedule for the day. And doing a darned good job of it.
I know, because it wasn't until recently I started my own firm. I LOVE what I do now, and wouldn't trade it for anything (and am grateful to have a loyal client base). But even when I worked for others, I didn't consider myself their "employee". I considered it 'on the job training for what I really want to do' while I started my business part-time.
I figured that giving clients outstanding service at my old job was good training for when I opened my own doors.
I figured that learning to give extra value to the person who scheduled my time (my employer) was good practice for learning how to do this for my own clients.
I figured that learning how to work out compromises with others, and delegate, would help me when I owned my own firm.
And it did, it did.
Anyway, that's my thoughts on this topic :(

#80 Gobslam


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Posted 12 August 2003 - 06:41 AM

This is a really interesting thread.

I guess I'm really lucky where I am. I'm working for a Public Sector website in the UK. When I started three years ago I had no experience of building or optimising web sites but over the years I've managed to get myself on some really useful courses and the experience I've picked up has been priceless.

I'm now at the stage where I'm just about to strike out on my own. I've got my first customer signed up and if all goes well I'm going to resign and really go for it.

I feel a bit like the guy who invented the parachute about to make his first jump and wondering if this crazy idea will actually work :eek: but at the same time its very exciting.

It may not work out but if I don't try, then I'll never know and years from now I could be stuck in a dead end job thinking if only....

#81 deborah2002


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Posted 12 August 2003 - 10:00 AM

Gobslam, you've hit the nail on the head. If you never tried (scary though it may be), you'd spend all your time wondering "what if........".

I think sometimes the risks worth taking are the ones we are most afraid to take.

Good luck to you! :eek:


#82 Scottie


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Posted 12 August 2003 - 12:26 PM

It may not work out but if I don't try, then I'll never know and years from now I could be stuck in a dead end job thinking if only....

Maybe this isn't the norm, but I've never yet made a change in my life that wasn't for the better. I can't look back at anything and think...if only I'd stuck with this or that company... if only I'd stuck with that marriage... :)

What I do look back and think sometimes is...why did I stay so long doing something that wasn't worth it? Loyalty is important, and I felt I "owed" people to stay, but eventually you gotta do what you gotta do.

But then, I don't typically jump into things without thinking them through either... except maybe this forum thing...

Jill- Let's start a forum!
Scottie- Let me research the different forum software available
Jill- There's software on my server
Scottie- Let's make sure it's scalable and has the features we want and can support a lot of volume, etc.
Jill- I just installed it.
Scottie- OK- I'll look at it.
Jill- How about if I announce it in the newsletter this week?
Scottie- AAAAHHH!

Luckily, this is exactly the software I would have recommended. :D

#83 Jill


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Posted 12 August 2003 - 12:37 PM

Hey Scottie...

Tomorrow, let's put on a play! :D


#84 mcanerin


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Posted 12 August 2003 - 11:09 PM

Actually, that sounds like great teamwork! One to say "hey lets go sail across that ocean and see where it goes" and the other to say "umm... ok, but lets make sure we bring food and a compass" :lol:

I work that way with my friends as well ;)

#85 rudeymvp


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Posted 05 September 2003 - 04:30 PM

Here's my story.
July 2002 i completed my AAS in PC and Internet Programming at age 35,,,14 months later..no job and not one interview. I went back to school cuz my current job that Ive been at since 1988 is soooooo boring. I work in the pre-press dept for a printing company,,make plates,,scan photos. It took me 4 yrs to get that 2 year degree completed and cant find a job!

Then ya hear all the DOOM AND GLOOM of IT,,all the outsourcing to India etc etc.
I mainly went back to school cuz my job was dead-end and i needed some real skills. Now all i hear about IT is outsourcing and the cut-throat competition for programming jobs...and how I have no shot getting into Web Development with just a 2 year degree. I never wanted to do heavy duty hardcore C/C++,,i just wanted to break into web development..html, javascript, java, sql, vb.

Now I'm second guessing everything Ive done....very depressing.
I'm going to eventaully finish a Bachelors Degree online...but im wondering if I'm beating a dead horse with majoring in IT.

Seems like I'm slowly losing ambition to do anything!!! Which makes me even more depressed. I don't even know what I wanna do for a career anymore.
I feel like life is passing me by.

Any suggestions from you IT people is appreciated.

#86 Jill


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Posted 05 September 2003 - 05:54 PM

Welcome, rudeymvp! :censored:


#87 qwerty


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Posted 05 September 2003 - 06:09 PM

Rudey, I know it's rough out there. That's why I'm in here.

After 12 years of a job I hated, 9 months of school (studying IT) for a career change, and 6 months of looking for a new job (during which I had 2 interviews), I managed to land a job. That lasted three and a half years, and then I was laid off.

Since then (about 7 months ago), I've been working on building a freelance consulting business and collecting unemployment. And it's been places like this that have been my biggest help. I've learned enough about this business that I'm now teaching a bit more than I'm learning, I've made a lot of contacts, and things are finally coming together for me.

When you stop working for a company and start working from home there are plenty of trade-offs, both good and bad, but I think it's worth it. I think if somebody offered me a salaried position at this point, I'd probably turn it down.

#88 smc_online


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Posted 05 September 2003 - 06:27 PM

Any suggestions from you IT people is appreciated.

Hey rudymvp,

I am IT alumni and I left a successful position (President of an IT company) to do my own thing and pursue my passion and dream of having a family business.

Instead of approaching your situation thinking about what makes you happy, take a diffrent angle and ponder on what will make you feel complete. Complete can mean different things to different people. For instance, in my case, I feel complete being a devoted wife, a loving mother, a caring daughter, a supportive sister, etc.

My passion is built around what makes me complete (my family). So I find that being on my own allows me to focus on being a supportive wife, mother, etc.

Don't beat yourself up.

#89 market seeker

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 08:31 PM

Seems like I'm slowly losing ambition to do anything!!!  Which makes me even more depressed.  I don't even know what I wanna do for a career anymore.
I feel like life is passing me by.

Life is passing you by just like it is the rest of us. If you want a job I have an opening right now. you can make $80,000 a year but you will have to work hard. And you must relocate to Las Vegas, you also must be a self starter.

I wish I were 35 again. Man I will trade you anytime and I make alot of money. Well mabey not alot but more than average. More than alot of lawyers and I dropped out of school in the ninth grade and then partied half of my life away. If I can do it anyone on this forum can do it.

Depression never ever, ever helped anyone ever. Get a plan and stick it out and read Brandon Sinclair's article on how to get a job. And get positive no matter what happens. It will work out.

#90 Mel


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Posted 06 September 2003 - 02:32 AM

what a lot of great posts, which I hope will help those who are feeling down at the moment, but which to me reveal a new aspect to this forum.

Not only are the moderators interesting and informative, but I think this is the first time I have been aware of associating with such a group of thinking individuals. This thread reveals the human side of this forum, and what an interesting group of people have gathered here.

Dragonlady7, don't be too hard on yourself, the company website you built is professional quality, and despite the all too human feeling that life is passing you by, at your age you still have so much before you that you will one day look back on your first job and laugh.

I wish I could remember who first said this, but it is something I remind my self every day:

Its not what you want that makes you happy but what you get

Make the best of what you have, ignore that which you cannot change and find ways to make the future better. When I was your age I had no idea what life had in store for me, but forty years later I can look back and see that I could have done some things better, that I had a lot of luck both good and bad, but that the journey must have been worth the goal for I have few regrets.

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