28 replies to this topic

[ewc21]

Citing some examples, it is apparent that Microsoft and Yahoo further deepen ties in its probable attempt to impose a serious challenge to Google's dominance not only in search engine battle but across different fronts as well.

What do you think?

[Randy]

Personally, I think it all has very little to do with Google.

Yahoo is already kicking Google's tush all over the place. The only place they're not is in organic search. But advertising and everything else... Let's just say that Google isn't even in the same ballpark and that Yahoo's revenue streams are across a much broader spectrum. And is less risky if for none other than that reason.

Common misconception because everything about search became some Google-centric for years, but still a misconception.

Yahoo, or more specifically the Yahoo Network, is one of those strange animals in the business world in that they're in a lot more places than most people realize. And they're not at all afraid to partner with companies that most would consider to be competitors on one front or another. Heck, at one time they even provided seed money to Google!

I'm not sure how much Google stock they have left at this point, if any. I do remember reading that they'd cashed in by selling some $130 million worth of Google stock they held last year right after the IPO.

[RyanBlank]

Yahoo is already kicking Google's tush all over the place.

this has become apparant to me over the last few years, but as you say.. people still equate Yahoo to search, and search is all about Google. and rightly so because no matter what anybody thinks, Google is the one who is and has been bringing the traffic. But... How many Yahoo stores rank highly in Google SERP's?

The day i learned about Yahoo stores was the day i said to myself..

"Good lord.. Where is Google on this one? Not only is Yahoo providing a low fee monthly service to help kick start the ecommerce revolution.. but they are also taking a piece of EVERY transaction that comes through one of their stores."

And how many sales are generated for Yahoo stores through Google?

This was like a secret revenue source that wasn't so secret. It's just people decide not to acknowledge it. And that is just one of the many many examples of a revenue stream that Yahoo has and Google does not.

Google had to make a conscious decision not to compete in that area, as well as other areas.. there is no way they just overlooked it. so they most likely have a plan or a reason why.

As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

-Benjamin Disraeli

Add 'most information' to that quote. This seems to be Google's mission.. we'll see if it pans out.

[Randy]

Oh, I think you can expect Google (and MSN) to jump into the fray on the Store front Ryan. If I had to guess, expect it within a year. 18 months tops. Both Google and MSN are a lot more plugged in than the average person is.

And you're right, Yahoo has really done the whole Yahoo Stores thing up right! They get a cut all the way through the process, sort of like eBay does now since they own PayPal. Only on a grander scale.

Here's a little tidbit for you that most don't realize...

Did you know that 1 in 8 of every e-commerce store on the 'Net is a Yahoo Store?

Yeah, they're doing just fine on the revenue front. Even though so many people immediately discount them because of the media's infatuation with Google.

[RyanBlank]

Oh, I think you can expect Google (and MSN) to jump into the fray on the Store front Ryan.

why the delay then Randy? i just don't get it. with all that cash, they could easily build something similar to Yahoo! stores. they've let this chunk of the market get away for years now. regardless, Google needs to get in there so i think you're right. but what that tells me is that they didn't value this type of product as much as they should have. sort of how MSN neglected search. that shows narrow vision imo..

Did you know that 1 in 8 of every e-commerce store on the 'Net is a Yahoo Store?

i had no idea the ratio was that high. how much does ecomm as a whole pull in a year now? and how fast is that total number growing? that's an amazing amount of revenue they are taking in.

it's like a modern day internet mafia.. they've got a HUGE neighborhood of businesses built up in the Yahoo! store community and Yahoo is strong arming their piece of the pie from them all. except in this case, people are happy to pay up (for the most part) because the service is cheap.. dependable.. useful.. and they are not getting physically beaten in the process.


OFFTOPIC:

this is something i've thought about for years.. Take town businesses online and play real life monopoly. go down to your local business district.. provide every retailer down there with a simple ecomm solution for a small monthly fee, or heck, even free just to get everyone on board.. take a piece of each sale as Yahoo does and maybe the free people pay higher %'s. provide each participant with marketing tools such as: seo friendly cart link sites in each town via a main 'monopoly board' type site for each town.. (you may have seen a 'something-opoly' board game for your town already listing all the local vendors..? build a seperate site that does this with the main page for the town showing special deals from certain vendors and things going on..? maybe have each vendor if they wanted to, pay for advertising on this main page? pull feeds from each store showing new products and deals..? who knows.. link the various main town sites involved (assuming more than one town is on board) making a 'national' community of participating towns. help with other internet and traditional marketing areas like press release services, PPC, product feeds, local mailings, newspaper ads, etc. some of this could be funded by the revenue generated from the transaction % taken.. ultimately, get the word out locally that all goods you find in your jaunts downtown can also be found here (insert main town url:). the way this is setup is that a lot of local marketing takes care of itself (and i love local since it's still so neglected and not very well monetized online). if all local businesses are involved then you essentially have the resources of the town at your fingertips. it could easily become a town intiative. anyway, all i need is the ecomm solution developed.. a server farm packed with people to keep them up and running.. and a ton of cash... basically, i need to be Yahoo or something similar. oh well.. i've got a business plan anyway. it's raw and impossible to do without major money, but i like it all the same and will dream of my own real life game of monopoly!

[Randy]

OFFTOPIC:

Who says you can't leverage Yahoo Stores into your local marketing concept? Starter stores are only $40 per month!

As for the rest of it, Google has been every bit as search-centric as SEO's have been Google-centric. Plus, it's a lot more than just one element that needs to be brought into the mix.

Hosting, support, stats programs, advertising programs, merchant services, etc, etc. Yahoo has been building and improving their Stores options for years now. Plus they are able to offer their store owners discounts on certain advertising packages because they've got such a vast network.

But look at some recent Google moves. We have Google Wallet, which everybody thinks is a Paypal knockoff. Couldn't it also be defined as a Merchant Services program though? They already have the hosting ability, and they're supposedly building their own Internet backbone. They definitely need to hire some people for the support aspects. They need to develop some software for people to use to create their stores, which is a trivial matter. A couple of months ago they purchase Urchin, which coulc definitely handle the stats. So now to compete head-to-head with Yahoo they simply need to get it all set up, get some staff hired and sort out a way to offer a discount for advertising that doesn't destroy what they've built with Adwords.

Google is close. And you can trust that they've had this sort of thing on their radar for some time.

MSN is probably going to be last to the market because they've still got their core software business, plus they're just getting into Web-things.

Weirdest fact about Yahoo Store merchants to me?

Last I checked, being a Yahoo Store merchant gave you the right to proudly display the fact that your store is connected to Yahoo with their little graphics. Less than 2% do this, which is silly IMHO. Talk about being able to build trust immediately via your connection with a worldwide known and respected brand... I just don't get why anybody would take a pass on that opportunity. I know I don't and won't.

[RyanBlank]

And you can trust that they've had this sort of thing on their radar for some time

this is why i feel they've almost decided not to develop this product, or at least not yet anyway. obviously there are many components to providing this service effectively and time is needed to get everything together.. but the fact remains, Yahoo has been at it for years. when i first set up a yahoo store a few years ago.. the service was bad and overall, things were very primative (they still are to a certain degree). but it didn't matter because there was a demand there.. a demand that is growing leaps and bounds today. Yahoo has improved over time as they should, which puts them well ahead in the game. However, i see no reason why Google couldn't have done the same. i see all the pieces you mention coming together, now.. Google wallet is an obvious move to get into the payment/transaction game.. but i still don't see any Google Store speculation..

I see this Google base thing.. which looks like a craig's list/ebay on steroids. i see Froogle, which is just a huge database filled with products.. still, no Google stores. it just seems like they said, "go ahead Yahoo, have your stores.. we don't care. you can't beat us with THAT!"

Well, today i'm sure they do care.. and i'm with you on the fact that something 'Google store' should happen soon. i just don't think they needed all this time (plus however many more months/years it takes to come out with it) to make it happen. i think they overlooked its potential and made a decision not to develop in that particular market.

[Randy]

It's a double-edged sword Ryan. And yes I think the Google-ites made that decision.

Become too UN-focused and they dilute their main product. That is admittedly making them a lot of moolah. Plus they get crucified when we think their search sucks and they're devoting too many resources to all of this other stuff.

Become too Focused and they end up owning that market after a few years, but only that market because they've managed to crush the competition. But they miss out on all of the other neat stuff. And have set themselves up to be slaves to that market to a certain degree.

There was a story in Wired magazine this past summer where one of the Yahoo guys was quoted as saying that Google was where Yahoo was 4 or 5 years ago. It sounded funny at the time to me, until I actually did the research.

The comment was right.

Now we get to see if Google 2.0 can compete across all boundaries with Yahoo 4.0.

[ewc21]

Interesting inputs guys.

Interesting to see a line of products Google released in the coming months. Do I see Google Music, Google Marketplace, etc after Google Earth, Google Talk, Google Suggest, Google Sitemaps, etc?

Seems probable as Google continues to bulk up its headcount like it was 1999.

[Randy]

I agree ewc. Google is definitely branching out and is likely going to attempt to monetize some of these other things. Some view this as a bad thing for Search. Who knows. It depends upon if Google gets mentally side-tracked or keeps at least a portion of their Empire firmly focused on Search and Search alone.

Frankly, I think they've already got a pretty good model for doing exactly that. For instance, look at how they keep their Search and Adwords/Adsense units completely separate. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point.

As purely a business decision --disregarding any potential effect on Search-- I think it's good thing for Google to diversify their revenue streams. As things stand today, Google's profits and losses depend almost entirely upon Adwords revenue. It's never a good thing, from a business point of view, to put all of ones eggs in a single basket. So I'm rather pleased to see Google stepping outside of itself to persue other areas.

[RyanBlank]

Google is definitely branching out...  Some view this as a bad thing for Search.

see.. this is what i don't get. is Yahoo search quality really that bad? or is it just the fact that Yahoo rankings don't drive as much traffic as Google rankings do? i would say the latter.

i don't see diversification as a hinderance.. especially if i'm a stock holder. how diverse a company is General Electric? Sears holding company? this is how a business grows AND creates a solid foundation. they need more than one leg to stand on.

as Randy mentioned, AdWords and AdSense are completely cut off from each other and both services are top notch. monetizing other areas shouldn't hurt that or search or any other Google service, especially with all of the resources Google now has. the only thing that can hurt is mis-management and a narrow vision. a new fad could come along in search and take Google's pants down with it.. it's not likely, but if it did happen the damage would be tremendous. whereas Yahoo might still be a solid company.

[Randy]

a new fad could come along in search and take Google's pants down with it.. it's not likely, but if it did happen the damage would be tremendous. whereas Yahoo might still be a solid company.

Nail struck firmly on head Ryan.

[torka]

as Randy mentioned, AdWords and AdSense are completely cut off from each other and both services are top notch.

Which is, IMHO, why they're taking their time about launching e-commerce (and I agree with Randy, I think it's definitely on the horizon). They can't afford to come out with a 1.0 version of anything. It's got to be as good or better (faster, cheaper, more flexible, whatever) than what Yahoo's got now. They know they're under the microscope, they've got a reputation to maintain, and there are plenty of people out there who would just love to see Google mis-step.

I suspect they want very much to launch something with the same "wow-factor" that we got when we first saw Google Earth. It's gotta be amazing and it's gotta be rock-solid from the get-go, which takes time. I'm guessing they're thinking it's better to be fashionably late to the party in a one-of-a-kind drop-dead-gorgeous coture dress than to arrive a little earlier but wearing the same off-the-rack frock everybody else has on.

My

--Torka

[Randy]

Agreed Torka.

A cautious approach is definitely the best for Google. They'll want to do everything they can to garner positive press.

When you add into the equation what has already been mentioned that there are a lot of parts and pieces that go into making a successful e-commerce store option... Let's just leave it at a blanket statement that the average inexperienced non-webmaster/non-programmer doesn't understand a good bit about what it takes to be a successful e-Entrepreneur.

It's a lot more difficult than it appears at first glance to set up a system that covers all of those bases without devoting a considerable amount of time, effort and money to support.

With Google's recent opening of the communication lines it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they start with some type of beta Invitation Only store option so that they can garner some early feedback. Whether those invites are given to current store owners or to web design agencies, they'll likely get some really good feedback that will allow them to tweak their initial offering to the general public when it appears.

Of course I wouldn't mind being a part of that beta, for the Google-ites that are most assuredly going to be reading this.

[torka]

Of course I wouldn't mind being a part of that beta, for the Google-ites that are most assuredly going to be reading this. 

Very subtle, Randy! Ditto from this corner, of course!

--Torka