25 replies to this topic

[SearchRank]

I just received an email from GoGuides.org that basically reaffirms what they posted on their site: "that GoGuides.org recently suffered a hostile takeover". The email goes on to say that the database they are using belongs to GoGuides and that Skaffe is an illegal site. The email says "if you have been working for them, basically, you've been working for nothing, as they are illegally using the GoGuides.org database."

It invites GoGuides editors to "come back" and work for GoGuides but to do so, one must not work for or associate themselves with Skaffe. They state that the database has been rebuilt and sites are now ready to be added.

Two observations:

1. It appears that GoGuides will have to be completely rebuilt as far as adding all the sites that were formerly there. This is sad especially if you are like me and have already spent extensive time adding and reviewing sites to the database that they claim has been stolen.

2. It appears that if those of us who "were/are" GoGuides and have automatically been given editing privileges with Skaffe must now choose between one or another. I think it is wrong to make someone choose between which directories they will edit and add sites to.

For now, I believe I'll just take a "wait and see" attitude with these two directories and see what happens. One says "we decided to part and go our own ways" while the other is crying "thief, thief."

[Jill]

David, it's hard to know what the whole truth of the matter is.

Those on the skaffe.com side say that they do have a right to the database. Looks like this one will have to be settled in court.

In the meantime, I'm staying away from both organizations until they work out their differences.

Jill

[Scottie]

Thinking about this a little more...

If I were a site owner who had paid to have my site reviewed by GoGuides and now it no longer appears in GoGuides, I'd be a little upset about that.

There are some huge issues they need to work out.

On a selfish note, it would be great if they simply each kept a copy of the existing data and then went forward building their own expanded directories from there. We can use another solid directory but not at the expense of an existing one!

I do think forcing volunteer editors to choose one or the other will hurt the quality of both directories. That stipulation seems very childish and punitive towards the very people they need to help them succeed.

[compar]

I do think forcing volunteer editors to choose one or the other will hurt the quality of both directories. That stipulation seems very childish and punitive towards the very people they need to help them succeed.

How can they "force" you to do anything? What would stop a person from being an editor for both directories?

I don't know what's going on in the US any more. You've got Google setting moral and ethical standards and now GoGuide and this new directory "forcing" people to make choices??? I thought this was supposed to be "the land of the free and the home of the brave."

[Jill]

Bob, yes, we live in a free society, but I'm pretty sure we are all forced to make choices every day. What's one thing got to do with the other?

And to get further off-topic, Google doesn't set moral or ethical standards either.

Jill

[compar]

And to get further off-topic, Google doesn't set moral or ethical standards either.

Jill

Jill,

I think you have just made my point for me. "Google doesn't set ethical standards." This may be the most significant occurence of agreement between us in the history of our troubled relationship. Wow!

So now explain to me why so many people on this forum insist on calling anyone who violates Googles standards unethical?

[compar]

Bob, yes, we live in a free society, but I'm pretty sure we are all forced to make choices every day.  What's one thing got to do with the other?

Jill

The question revolves around the meaning or extent of "forced". You can say that you are forced to make a choice every morning between corn flakes or bacon and eggs. But the suggestion in this thread was that some outside entity -- GoGuide and/or Skaffe -- was "forcing" or coercing people to choose between to alternatives.

I don't see how they can "force" anybody to do anything. And my point was why would anybody allow this to happen for one minute? Were did the pioneer spirit, the fierce individualism and the demand to control our own destiny go?

Edited by compar, 02 November 2003 - 12:44 PM.

[Ron Carnell]

When I was married, my wife neither set moral standards nor forced me to refrain from doing something. On the other hand, part of being in a relationship is doing what you said you were going to do (implicitly or explicitly) when you agreed to be in the relationship. So, I never fooled around.

My relationship with Google is slightly less formal, considerably less onerous, but if I want the relationship to continue is no less binding.

We have the freedom to make our own choices. But so, too, does Google, GoGuides, and my wife.

[Scottie]

Bob-

they can't "force" you to choose their directory over the other, but they can remove the people who don't choose one way or the other.

That is their choice, their perogative to determine who is associated with their organization.

My point is that enforcing that policy will result in 2 weaker organizations where there could be 2 strong ones. It would be better if the owners could come to some agreement.

[Ron Carnell]

I completely agree, Scottie. They are making the same mistake that far too many forums have made in the past when they refused to link to or acknowledge any competing forum. It's only in the past few years that forums have lost their separationist philosophy and the more valued Members of one community have been allowed to openly become Members of another without being branded "traitors." We've grown tremendously, I think, since those days, especially in terms of quality. It will be a real shame if the Directories have to go through the same process.

[Scottie]

It seems that GoGuides has relented some; they are now just implying that dealing with the other directory is a bad thing. I received an e-mail today from GoGuides:

I cannot say much because of future legal issues, but if you are associated with skaffe.com, you are associated with an illegal site. You are not doing anything illegal, but the people running it are and are subject to legal action.  You may, of course, use your own discretion and we cannot tell where to volunteer your time, that is completely up to you.

I really, really wish they would deal with this behind the scenes instead of making a public match out of it; it isn't good for either one.

I do understand some forum owners' desire to keep "their members" to themselves but IMO making an issue out of it just drives people away. You can't dictate where people feel at home! Many of us feel at home in more than one place. I say that's a good thing!

[tlpretender]

I agree scottie, folks should be able to feel welcome regardless of where they edit.

I think the initial response was an emotional one rather than a business one. This is often expected in human-edited directories. That is probably why we see all this stuff in the public eye.

I would rather see editors with a lot of experience help build a directory rather than force them to remain with a narrow focus. That's why I enjoy editing at Skaffe, Joeant, Dmoz, etc. One can learn a lot. As long as guidelines are met for whatever directory a person works on there should not be any problems. Prejudicial restrictions would limit the 'fun' that can be had in editing.

[OldWelshGuy]

The problem i see it is similar to the breakdown of ones marriage, or when you see your kid go into self destruct mode and there is not a thing you can do about it.

We have a divorce battle going on, but both parties seem to be accepting solomons decision to cut the child in half, and both parents get half each.

The result is that the child will die, and the parents will be left looking the worse for it all in the perception of the public, sad, and getting sadder.

Hopefully the business mentality will kick back in soon before any long term damage is done, personally i hope it is sooner rather than later.

[SearchRank]

It appears that GoGuides will have to be completely rebuilt as far as adding all the sites that were formerly there.

As an update to this, the directory will have to be rebuilt or in other words, all the sites that were there will have to be added once again.

The only good news out of this is those of you who are editors, once you are given a new login and password, you can add to any category of the directory right now and are not limited to just one. So if you have client's site to add, NOW is the time to do it.

If you are not an editor, now might be a good time to join as you would probably be able to add to any category instantly and not have to wait for a review process.

The bummer (for me) is that I had added alot of sites there and now have to add them once again. More work that I don't need right now!

[SearchRank]

Looks like the winner is Skaffe.com! Found this announcement this morning on GoGuides.org site:

Notice: GoGuides.Org is for sale! If you think you have what it takes to run one of the fastest growing and most popular human edited directories on the net then this opportunity is for you. Offers will be accepted till 12-3-03. If the minimum reserve price is not met the directory will not be sold. If the directory is sold the buyer must agree to continue running all advertisement, all listings, and agree to continue developing this directory as a spam free community. Minimum Bid Price: $10,000.00 US Dollars. All offers must accompany a 20% down payment of the bid amount via paypal to be considered legitimate.

My login also did not work. They do have what appears to be all the original data back in place. Very interesting.