18 replies to this topic

[keli]

About 1.5 yrs ago, we converted an already existing web design client to an SEO client. They purchased some phrases and we optimized the site. Our contract AT THAT TIME stipulates you MUST purchase monthly monitoring for at least 6 months after the site goes live. At the end of those 6 months, the client can terminate. Part of their monthly monitoring includes the typical things that it seems most the SEO's do... reports, stats, natural link exchange, working on copy, etc.

In this case, the client quit after 6 months because they weren't ranking where we wanted (we always get our attorneys on the first page) and also at that time, the sandbag/age-delay-filter was in effect. They quit the monthly monitoring but are still part of our directory and are still a web design client.

Today I checked their ranking; they are #1 across the board. I'd like them back as an SEO client because I hope to maintain this ranking for them.

The question is... any of you that do SEO then have your client drop monthly monitoring WHAT services do you actually drop? As their designer... I have to honor their link exchange requests (although I don't research them to see if they're from the same neighborhood, etc). The only time I work on their site is when they ask for changes.

We've since upped the mandatory monitoring to 9 months but are wondering what service should we stop when someone cancels? We of course don't run any reports now... but if they want changes to copy, as their designer we have to do that.

I'm trying to get them back by showing them where their site is (I'm sure they're aware as they were constantly checking ranking).

We don't *un SEO* a page when someone quits the monthly monitoring, we leave it as is... Maybe we need to change the way we do things, maybe we don't. We're trying to get an idea of what others do in the same situation.


Thanks for any insight,
Keli

Edited by keli, 23 September 2005 - 10:33 AM.

[samzbuzy]

The question is... any of you that do SEO then have your client drop monthly monitoring WHAT services do you actually drop? As their designer... I have to honor their link exchange requests (although I don't research them to see if they're from the same neighborhood, etc).

Leave it to your client decide on the link exchange requests

I'm trying to get them back by showing them where their site is (I'm sure they're aware as they were constantly checking ranking).

1) If your client is aware they are ranking well and they didnt go to another SEO firm after cancelling yours, you stand good chances talking to them

2) It could also turn up that the client assumes building a site, do little or no seo and leave it, they will get ranked over time. You may have a tough time though

We don't *un SEO* a page when someone quits the monthly monitoring, we leave it as is... Maybe we need to change the way we do things, maybe we don't.

You are on the right track, do not *un SEO" because a client cancels your service.
Over a period of time you will gain respect as a professional.



Sam

[SearchRank]

Well first of all if you charged any kind of up front fee for the SEO work you did, then you should never remove it if the client decides to stop paying you on an ongoing basis because you would be essentially robbing them of something they have already paid for. If you had some kind of agreement that they were paying ongoing for optimization you provided, then that might be different. Even in that case it may be unscrupulous to remove optimization.

That being said, I think you have to show your client the value you provide beyond just running reports for them. What steps are you taking to keep them above their competition? Are you improving their site's optimization over time? Are you helping to make their site better? Are you working to improve ROI? Are you researching keyword strategy to ensure you are consistently targeting the best phrases?

These things and many more will keep clients for long term. They want to know you are working with them to help make their sites be the best they can be and to ensure they remain highly visible to the world.

Even with that, a percentage of clients will still quit monthly maintenance programs for one reason or another. It just comes with the territory. My advice would be to not expend your efforts trying to coax a client into a ongoing SEO maintenance program who doesn't want it but rather go after others that do and see the value in SEO.

[keli]

Our fee structures work as such:

They pay $X per keyword phrase upfront. The more phrases they purchase, the less X becomes per phrase.

Then we have monthly monitoring of $Y - for 9 months. Then it's up to them if they'd like to cancle at the end of that nine months.

These are attorneys, so the first case they get from our SEO, our firm fees are paid for in 10-fold. The attorneys that *get it* see what the SEO has done for them and are very appreciative - in fact I've had some come back and buy many phrases and get new sites. They've come to learn to trust me, which I think is a lot in this busines. In this case however, the aging delay filter got us, they cancled after 6 months and we've since adjusted our contract from 6 months to 9. We don't unoptimize, don't change anything unless they ask. They don't leave our company, just simply stop the monitoring.

If this one client in particular did go to another SEO firm, we'd know. We host and design the site. So they really aren't *leaving* us per say... just dropping that monitoring.

I'd just hate to see them fall to oblivion because I don't look after it... there's a lot I do to sites on a monthly basis to make sure my guys stay in the top 3 positions in the top three engines.


Thanks for the feedback. This is and will always be an ongoing learning process

Keli

[keli]

It almost seems that the terminology I'm using needs to be changed from

Monthly Monitoring
to
Monthly Maitenance

After all, that is what I'm doing, maintaining the site. Monitoring would be a subset of the maitenance it seems...


Keli

[Jill]

I'd just hate to see them fall to oblivion because I don't look after it... there's a lot I do to sites on a monthly basis to make sure my guys stay in the top 3 positions in the top three engines.

Like what?

Honestly, my guess is that they'll continue to do well regardless of anything else you do. If they're comfortable running their own reports, or they don't want/need them, then leave them alone and let them enjoy the great work you did and got paid for!

[keli]

 
Like what? 

Probably the same things others do
You don't perform any maitenance for your clients?

For me SEO is ongoing... creating and maintaining a great site for my client's users. Freshening the copy, keeping information current, adding to existing resources, just general good "stuff" for the users. I spend about 5 hours a month on my clients ongoing maitenance.


Keli

[RyanBlank]

i don't see why you would have any obligation to continue handling link exchange requests.. or spend any time for that matter on further maintenance without compensation.

it's been my experience that after moving a site to that #1 spot, it should very well stay there for a long time with no further effort. it all depends on the competition of course, but for the most case this has held true. when this happened, i used to say that i was working myself out of a job.. but the fact is, that's how it is when you do a good work for someone. furthermore.. when a client does reach that #1 spot, they usually do not see a need for any more work until there is a drop. personally, i would like to see them be proactive no matter where they rank, and i would like to see them broadening their base of keywords to target and the overall reach of their website in general.. but in the end, that is ultimately up to them.

[DanThies]

It all depends on where the activity happens, and the nature of the activity. Ongoing activitities certainly might include monitoring (referrals, rankings, conversions), but there's also a lot of maintenance that should be done (links, strategy/direction, etc.).

IMO, the simplest approach is to set the client up with monitoring tools, and carry out a monthly business review with them to address anything that comes up. That's a simple approach for an "SEO only" effort, and it makes sense to suspend maintenance activities if you aren't being paid for them.

It's not really clear, Keli, if you're charging for the work your firm does as their designer. If you can quantify the business benefit they get from the additional SEO/monitoring fees, then it's an easy sale. If you can't, you may want to address that as a weakness in your business model. I'm not suggesting that you aren't adding value by any means, but perception=reality when you're dealing with a client.

[keli]

i don't see why you would have any obligation to continue handling link exchange requests..  or spend any time for that matter on further maintenance without compensation. 

After the cancellation of SEO monitoring, they're still a design client. If they get sent a link exchange request, I'd put it on like I would any other client but I don't research it. 75% of the link exchange requests we get are just ALL WRONG lol.

personally, i would like to see them be proactive no matter where they rank, and i would like to see them broadening their base of keywords to target and the overall reach of their website in general..  but in the end, that is ultimately up to them.

That's how I feel... keyword trends change and there seems to be *gems* popping up now and then that would be nice to incorporate into an article or resource. I make my clients get involved, the more they understand and learn, the better off they seem to do as well as appreciate the work that goes into their site.


Thanks for your input.
Keli

[keli]

 
t's not really clear, Keli, if you're charging for the work your firm does as their designer.

Attorneys pay a yearly fee for a Web site consisting of X pages (there are several packages). So they do pay for design and they get quarterly changes/updates. SEO is an add-on service. If a regular ol' design client E-mails me *hey put this link on my site* we're obliged to. I just don't research the link if they're not an SEO client. 75% of the link exchange requests I get, for the SEO clients, I decline.


Thanks again,
Keli

[DanThies]

Sounds like you're selling less than you should on the design side. If you're just adding links without looking at them, that's not necessarily a good thing for your client, is it?

[keli]

Sounds like you're selling less than you should on the design side. If you're just adding links without looking at them, that's not necessarily a good thing for your client, is it?

I agree with you on this and in the past I have advised that this might not be the best link for your site, etc blah blah blah without going into SEO. They only send them to me if they want them on their site. The SEO clients, I get sent the link requests, bypassing the attorney, and it's up to me to add them because I am selling them that service of my expertise on the value of links.

When they're a design client, they don't have an optimized site. They just depend on our directory for their traffic (which is our primary product).


Thanks again,
Keli

[RyanBlank]

If a regular ol' design client E-mails me *hey put this link on my site* we're obliged to

Ahh.. now i get what you mean. so in this case it would fall under regular design/website maintenance since they are merely asking for an update to their website..

but, and this is a big but.. was this client pursuing links pre-seo days? meaning, was it something they wanted to incorporate on their site initially? i ask because if this was something you implemented/suggested for seo purposes than it should be considered an seo task. however, you may still be obliged to add the links under the website design/maintenance contract simply because they ask you to do so.

even so, you shouldn't feel obligated to spend your time making sure it is a good link to add.. this should be done before they send you the add request.

either way, it seems like you are being a good sport about it and keeping your clients best interests in mind. this can only lead to better things for you. just make sure they are compensating you in some way for your time. if they have X hours per month of website maintenance work alotted, deduct the link checking and addition from that..

[keli]

but, and this is a big but.. was this client pursuing links pre-seo days?  meaning, was it something they wanted to incorporate on their site initially?  i ask because if this was something you implemented/suggested for seo purposes than it should be considered an seo task.  however, you may still be obliged to add the links under the website design/maintenance contract simply because they ask you to do so.

Yes somewhat... We'd get requests for links before the SEO unit really kicked in. It's definitely a fuzzy area. Now days links seem to go hand in hand with SEO instead of *I just want to add resources and information for my users* - the Realtors I work with seem to break their back trying to acquire links with anything and anybody from anywhere. I think It's a thing of... too much information is a bad thing. In some cases I wish they'd be the Realtor and let me be the SEO person. The ones that *get it* are a true joy and it's wonderful to see their site *do it* for them. It makes everyone happy; win-win.


Keli

Edited by keli, 23 September 2005 - 03:01 PM.